✨ Following The Aliveness as a Business Plan ✨w/ Sarah Weiler

Following the Aliveness is my Business Plan — with Sarah Weiler

What if following what lights you up wasn't just a nice idea — but your actual business plan?

In this joyful, wide-ranging conversation I sit down with the extraordinary Sarah Weiler — coach, pianist, songwriter, pricing expert, comedian, DJ, and the woman who brought 3,500 people together to sing 90s songs at Glastonbury.

Sarah's career has been anything but linear — and that, it turns out, is entirely the point. From burning out as a teacher, to starting a ukulele business in Vienna on a whim, to comping the Greenpeace stage at Glastonbury, to launching a psytrance exercise class in Brighton — Sarah has spent over a decade following what's alive in her, and building a life she loves as a result.

Her framework, the Carousel Model, makes a compelling case for trusting the non-linear path — and for seeing your "scattered" career not as a weakness but as a superpower.

We talk about:

• Following aliveness as a business strategy
• Why burnout can be a redirect
• The power of community and music
• Trusting the non-linear path
• What happens when you bring more of what lights you up into your life

Find Sarah here:

• Website: https://sarahweiler.com/
• Psy Fit Instagram: @psy_fit_
• Substack: https://sarahweiler.substack.com/

Links mentioned:

• Sarah's Happy Startup Summer Camp talk: https://happystartupsummer.camp/talks/sarah-weiler

-------------------

🌟 Before you go...

If this conversation stirred something in you — if you know what lights you up but can't quite seem to bring yourself to actually, well.... do it — I have something for you.

Join me on Thursday 7th May at 1pm UK for a free 90-minute live workshop: Heal Your Past, Grow Your Business, Change the World.

Let's find out what's standing between you and your YOU-ness — and start shifting it.

👉 Save your spot: https://truewealthwithbetty.myflodesk.com/heal2grow

From Betty: Being in business means being visible. Being ethical in business means not using dodgy tactics, of course, but also being authentic in how we present ourselves ~~

The trouble is… Many of us carry wounds around being seen, accepted, and celebrated as the individual we are. 

Left untended, these wounds divide our will, i.e. we end up with conflicted desires:

Part of us wants to be visible to grow our businesses, but another part of us is absolutely dead set on staying well and truly within the shadows… Because that's where it's SAFE. 

…whether that means literally hiding under the duvet (I've been there 🥸), 

...mega procrastination & self sabotage

…or pretending to be someone we are not, so as not to stand out (I've also been there 🤫).

The push & pull can be utterly EXHAUSTING.

But the good news is, it's relatively quick & easy to fix, once you access the level of the subconscious mind, using a modality such as hypnosis.

During this 90-minute recorded workshop you will:

- Understand why we tend to hide

- Get curious about experiences from your past that may be responsible for these kinds of blocks

- Learn some practical actionable DIY methods for bringing healing to those past experiences 

-Find out about the subconscious healing that Betty offers 

-Hear from other change makers like you, ...

Transcript

Flow As A Clue

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The invitation was like, what are the activities where you feel totally in flow? Where time stops where you're just not even thinking. And often we we don't value those things as things that could be work because they're so obvious and so natural and intuitive and joyful that we're like, well, that's our free time.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

What if that was something we could also earn money from because it's so because we love doing it. And I think it's a slight, it's a paradigm shift to think I'm allowed to build my work out of things that feel nourishing. Because often I think work is extractive or work make we have to feel we've worked hard, get to the end of the day and be depleted.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

And I yeah, I guess from my teaching time, I was like, hell no.

Meet Sarah Weiler

Sauna Mornings And Showing Up Bold

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Hello and welcome to the True Wealth Podcast, where we ask the question: what does it mean to be truly wealthy in this digital age of distraction and disconnection? I'm your host Betty Cotton Bertles, blues singer, Buddhist, mum of two, and former global shoestring adventurer, turned hypnotherapist and mindset coach. I believe that by healing our past and changing our beliefs, we may achieve not only the external successes, the house, the relationship, the money, the impact, but also internal success. The ability to actually enjoy our lives. Because it's the joy and happiness that makes it all worthwhile. Join me as I invite friends, colleagues, and esteemed teachers to discuss means of enhancing enjoyment in our lives, following our inspiration as individuals to create whatever it is that lights us up so that we might radiate that energy out into the world via our businesses or our day-to-day lives with the intention that all beings may benefit. I believe that this is where true wealth lies. Welcome to the show. Hello and welcome back to another episode. Um, today's guest, Sarah Weiler, is brilliant. She is so much fun, so colourful and so vibrant, and I know you're gonna love her. Um, I'm afraid that I uh Sarah and I actually recorded this episode a good four months ago now, and it's taken me a while to get around to editing it because I have been uh very much involved in writing my book. So that's what's happening over here uh in Betty Land. But yes, over to Sarah. This is a great episode, and you are gonna love it. I'm sure you guys it's so much fun. I really enjoyed talking to Sarah. I met her at Summer Camp last year. Summer camp that I talk about, you know, on the podcast so many times, you'll have heard me speak about it. This is one of those gatherings where you just know you're in the right place with with the right kind of people. So much uh oh, so much aliveness, and really that's the topic of today's conversation. Now, with Sarah, the first thing I noticed about her in this conversation are her earrings, they were fabulous. And if you're watching, you're gonna see them in a second. She is a person who shows up fully in a really big and bold and colourful way, which I adore. I'm oh, I just love it. So, yeah, total colourful vibes, and um with the most amazing. She was just wearing when she she gave a talk at summer camp, and she was wearing the most incredible item of clothing I've seen. It was like this embroidered Mexican bib thing, such bright colours, and I was just like straight away, oh my god, who is this woman? I adore her. And the story made me adore her even more. The things that she's done are really just quite remarkable and wonderful and colourful and bold, and you're gonna hear all about them now. And she's done all sorts of wild and wonderful things, including teaching ukulele to startups in the like very conventional business sense, going in and teaching people to sing with ukuleles, and it's wonderful. Um, she has had 3,500 people singing along with her on stage as she sang 90s classics at Glastonbury Festival, which like is again another little piece of my heart was left at Glastonbury. So this is yeah, she's a woman very close to like with we're very aligned in many ways, the colour and the festivals and the music. So yeah, I adore her. Um she left full-time teaching after burning out following a series of impulses that made absolutely no obvious sense to her at the time, including moving to Vienna on a whim, where, like I said just now, she got a whole entire Austrian startup singing. And she somehow built a life so full of aliveness that it almost defies description. She's a coach, a pianist, a songwriter, a pricing expert, a comedian, a DJ, and she's the founder of the most incredible, fun, joyful exercise class in Brighton, which I absolutely wish, like I told her in the conversation, I it's almost worth moving to Brighton for for me, because we discovered mid-conversation that we're both uh Cytrance fans. No, actually, it wasn't mid-conversation. We we established that at um summer camp. But we've both been to Boom Festival um in Portugal, which is just the most incredible week-long electronic music festival by the side of a lake, and it it is one of my epitome, like peak life experiences being there and dancing for a week in the sun, and this explains everything. Her whole vibe, her framework, her carousel model makes a compelling case for trusting the nonlinear path and for following what's alive in you, even when, and especially when it makes no obvious sense, which I love, and this is how I live too. So I really appreciate Sarah. I think you're gonna enjoy her, you're gonna get so much from her. The conversation made me laugh, it stopped me in my tracks, and it's and it sent me back to, like I say, these peak moments at Boom Festival. So, yeah, without any further ado, here's Sarah Weiler. Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Sarah. It's such a treat to have you here. You made it. I made it, we made it, we made it, yeah. Welcome. Thank you so much. And you are joining us from Brighton.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Brighton.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Brighton this morning.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Well, I went me and my friend committed to going for a sunrise sauna, and then I looked at the weather and was like, I don't think we're gonna see the sunrise. But it was like this beautiful in a in this rainy morning, this beautiful sun pushing through the clouds, and it was very magical. So I feel although I didn't want to get up in the dark, I'm now coming back feeling like very pleased that I did it.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Smug.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, I hate that word, but I hate the word too.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Thanks for saying that. I really hate it.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

I think I'd feel sort of an exercise. I mean, basically I went and had a lovely morning. So I don't know if I'm smuggled. I think I'm I think I'm feeling refreshed from being like in the elements.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Yes, and that is a really good feeling, isn't it? Like when you've been out and you come back and you're like ready to start the day, and you've been so you've been for a sauna. Is this something you do often?

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah, I try and go quite a lot. Um I've got a great setup in Brighton, and there's a gym, a sauna, and then the sea. And all really near each other, and so it's a kind of a little yeah, a little thing I do a few times a week. Nice and socialize and catch up with people.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Yeah, nice place to socialise. Wow. I mean, speaking to you from West Wales, um, and I've just been on the school run and got back and had breakfast. So um, and we had an absolute chaotic we're recording this in case you're coming to it, you know, another time. Uh, we're recording this early December 2025, and it's I've been through the floods to get to school in the lanes, it's like, you know, it's wet in Wales. And um also the kids were like making they have a secret Santa kind of St. Nicholas thing that they do, it's a Steiner school, so they had to kind of bake their own gifts to give to a person anonymously. And so this morning it was like, Mummy, we need to make boxes to put our biscuits in. And so I was doing that and making that oh, it's chaos, utter chaos. So it's uh it's always nice just to come home and land. And now I'm talking to you. And if you're not um if you are not watching this and you're listening, then you're missing out on Sarah's wonderful earrings that she's wearing. I just want to give them a shout out. They they are super cool.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

I'll give a shout out to the the person who makes them. In it's Tula and the Whale. She's based in Devon, and she all her earrings are really funky. I think they're made from vegan leather. Uh-huh. And you can just, there's such wonderful designs. So, yeah, check out Tula and the Whale. I'm not able to see it. I'm just I'll just talk about her everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

I just love her. Uh um, I think I it's now, now then. Sarah and I met at Summer Camp, which I've been banging on about summer camp. If you've been listening to the podcast for any amount of time, you're either gonna be booking your ticket or just sick and tired of hearing about it. So, um, and I remember talking to you at Summer Camp, Sarah, and saying, I just remember when you said Tula in the whale, then I was like, we've had this conversation before.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

But I think they were different earrings. But as in, I have so many. So I think I remember the ones I wore at Summer Camp and never not wearing them really.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

I love it. And um Sarah at Summer Camp gave a wonderful talk, which I enjoyed immensely. And it I believe, is it am I correct in saying it was called Follow the Aliveness?

SPEAKER_01 11:39

It was called Following the Aliveness is my business plan.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Oh, great. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Full title.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

And I think that this is a great place to start. So um, and I just before you start, I just want to say again about your gorgeous appearance when you were there giving your talk. You were wearing something incredible. Was that handle as well? You want to show us? I have it, I can go and get it. Should I get it? Show us, show us, because it was just too. I mean, now you're gonna be wishing you're watching on YouTube if um if you're just listening on the podcast. No, honestly, Sarah was she came up and she gave the talk, and she was. I thought it was like part of the were you wearing dung, it was like dungarees, and then I was wearing my Lucian Yak dungas. Yeah. This, okay, she's holding it up now, so you're missing out. Um, do you want to describe it for the people who are on audio?

SPEAKER_01 12:30

It's from Mexico, and it's a it's like a bib, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

It's like a bib, yeah, it's the coolest bib you've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Like two of those, you know, like the Mexican hearts and some big lips with the heart wings, and then ta what is this? Like tassels?

SPEAKER_03 12:47

They're like sparkly tassels in teal, and then just like all the colours of the rainbow kind of embroidered on in like wild yellow. Okay, and now she's got it on. It's the coolest thing. And uh I was in love when I first saw you in that. I was like, okay, great. I understand her.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Might be quite a bit for a potty, but um, there we go.

Burnout Sparks A New Question

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Oh, I really appreciate that. Thanks for going to get it and and showing us right, okay, now focus. So, um, Sarah, tell us about I'd let's start with this then. Um, I'd love to hear a bit of your backstory because you've done some amazing things, and this talk at Summer Camp was kind of covering that, and also how did you get to this point of uh discovering that aliveness could be a business model? I love this. Tell us more.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Well, yeah, so I think I'll share a bit about what I talked about in the talk, I think, because it it it it's it's really the story was was the talk. Um I have had a very varied career, and I think I'm probably not alone in terms of the people that come to Summer Camp, but also like kind of creative entrepreneurs and people like that. We tend to have this feeling of like, am I always starting something new? Um, you know, am I uncommitted? I I'd spent kind of from the time I graduated until now just following lots of different paths. I was a teacher, um, I worked, yeah, I worked full-time kind of as a languages teacher. I then kind of got into training teachers, I then trained as a coach and about 12 years ago set up my own company running ukulele workshops and then got into like comedy, started running a comedy night, like basically all that, but all these things were happening concurrently, right? And there was this sense because I was a teacher and I I found it very, very exhausting. So I went like full-on, like full-time teaching, and I yeah, I basically burnt out really from that experience. And I had this, I really remember in my final year of teaching, I did it for three years, and in the final year I remember thinking, there's got to be something that is a better use of my energy. Like this isn't, this is draining me to the core. I love working with kids, I love coming up with creative ideas, but I am ending the day more depleted, like, and not just depleted, like nothing left. Like I can, you know, for I would dread going to school every day. I would not see any of my friends because I had to spend the weekend recovering or planning, and it just took over my life. But I remember this thought of like, there's got to be something that is a better use of my energy than this. So I got really curious. I got really interested in like, what are the things that I do that actually bring me energy and bring me joy and feel like flow? And I have to really credit um John Williams and Selena Barker, who were two mentors of mine, who who kind of helped me in this discovery. I went through this process back in 2013 of really thinking about the things I loved. But I started to collect, I guess that's the right word. I started to notice or collect like what are the things that I really love that when I do them, they feel in flow and joyful. And I just started bringing them into my life more. So some of that was like music, like writing, bringing people together, you know, there was just sorts of themes of things that felt felt really in flow for me. And yeah, over time just started bringing them into my life more. And so I had this period of time that was like probably 2014 to about yeah, 20, maybe like 10 years, or maybe 20, 23, about 10 years, nine, 10 years, where I was like just trying stuff out, trying stuff out, um, set up a common, you know, all this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

And and I set up a what, sorry?

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Comedy night. That was what I was like.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Oh, the comedy night, yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Just lots of just set up lots of things and like kept being like new thing, new thing. But I was really just following these impulses of like, oh, this is exciting me now. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with that, I'm gonna go with that. And um I think I had this feeling, and people would have like, like, gosh, you're always doing something new, Sarah. Like, you know, and I thought like, I'm really, I think, I think I've got a problem. I think I'm not committed to anything, and like I think, you know, um, I don't know, I'd kind of look at my life with a lot of judgment until it got to this 10-year mark. And I had this moment, I was like, wow, it's 10 years since I left full-time work. So I've left full-time work in 2013 and I got to the summer, it's 10 years exactly, and I looked at this, I stood back and went, whoa, I have been really committed to following these impulses. Like, that's the commitment. Like actually, I have built a life that has been full of aliveness. I've built a life that has gone where I've prioritized things that felt joyful and exciting for me. And that has then made a life that is full, that's very full of good, of great things, of people, of of adventures. And and I was also able to stand back and think quite a lot of these things have ended up turning into something quite amazing. And not all of them have. And I guess it was this sense of, and this is what I talk about in the in the happy startup talk is like these things that were like I kind of saw these life cycles of the things I'd wanted to work on, like these little relationships, these little pulses. And some of them had felt, I don't know, I just had this totally new perspective on everything I'd put my energy into. So rather than like I've been uncommitted and I've I've nothing's lasted, I'm like, no, I've just continued to be like what now, what now, what now, until it created this life that was really like what I dreamed about when I just left teaching. So that's a lot, but that's some stuff that is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

And you know, I really I mean I relate hard, and I think people listening will relate hard. And you know, also it's some it takes I mean, for your average person, that takes serious courage to be so committed to what brings us joy in this current paradigm that we find ourselves in, where it's you know, it's just not I don't know about you, but when you were little, uh this is a curious um yeah, I mean I'd be curious to find out actually. How how how what kinds of ideas did you pick up maybe from your family or from the world about what it meant to be maybe successful or what it meant to be an adult? Um do do you when you look back, do you notice where you got like can you see any threads in your in your family, any patterns about following the aliveness or not?

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah, it's really interesting. I would say I definitely saw like in my mum's kind of with her mum and all her siblings, there was we I was really lucky that I grew up in this huge extended family where there was a lot of kind of creativity actually. So I thought although everyone had like most of my family are teachers, like it's just a real like on both sides, actually. It was like teachers and a few performers, but mostly I'd say it's like education.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Um but yet we would come together and have these family gatherings, and my grandma would like read out poems in funny lovely. Sisters would perform songs, and we would it was this real kind of thing of like there was an aliveness of that. So I think that's one thing I definitely grew up with. Um I was really lucky that I went to a primary school that it was it wasn't a Steiner school, but it kind of had that energy of like really nurturing creativity.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

I definitely got a feeling there of like you're allowed to take risks with creative stuff. I feel so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

So it felt safe. It felt safe to do things, to try different things to think so.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

I think those were some quite key things. And I think the other thing I've really reflected on recently is the the role of community in my early years with in the I grew up in quite a small town where there was a lot of there was a real focus on community and a sense of knowing everyone. And my parents were real, like bring people to the house. There was always like a and I I noticed that in the way I run my house now, is like open door, bring people around. So I think there's some of that stuff, the community building. I think as I've as I've kind of zoomed out with my with my work, I realize that is actually a constant. It's often around music and it's often around building community. And I think that's maybe what I saw as normalized.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

I don't necessarily see that I saw that as like a work thing, but I've kind of but the combination of what I was exposed to in like extracurricular plus what I did through that program with Selena and John is almost like it's that. I was like, I'm allowed to bring that stuff that we do in our spare time into my work.

Turning Flow Into Paid Work

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah, I I love that. So like looking for you is that with Selena and John that was the finding finding the things that you love doing that Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

It was that programme I did in twenty thirteen where you were asked to like think about what stuff what do you do when like time just stops and you're completely in the flow.

SPEAKER_04 22:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Can you make can you make that your work?

SPEAKER_03 22:22

That was the Oh let's just let's just pause with that for a second and everyone can just like that is a that is a bluming good question to sit with for a moment, isn't it? Can you say it again?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah, I think the invitation was like, what are the activities where you feel totally in flow? Where time stops where you're just not even thinking. And often we we don't value those things as things that could be work because they're so obvious and so natural and intuitive and joyful that we're like, well that's our free time.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

I do like what if it could what if what if that was something we could also earn money from because it's so because we love doing it. And I think it it's a slight, it's a paradigm shift to think I'm allowed to build my work out of things that feel nourishing. Because often I think work is extractive or work makes we have to feel we've worked hard, get to the end of the day and be depleted.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

And I yeah, I guess from my teaching time I was like, hell no.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

There was nothing left to extract, I'm guessing. I mean I I also come from a family of teachers on the one side. Um and yeah, I related, you know, to the the kind of family gatherings and that kind of you know, so the performance, you know, there's singers and there's teachers and um a love of creativity and just perform performing arts and things. So I love this. Okay, so what would be great then Sarah is if you could give us a sense of what those what those things were for you that you discovered with when you did that program. Um and you've touched on it, you've mentioned music and community building. Uh remind me what the other things that you came up with were. And then where and then the rest of the question is like, and and what did you where where's that taken you?

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Well, it's really lovely. I still have the book where I wrote down a list of all the things. And I every for a few years, every year I'd go back to it. And I think I had 24 things on the list, and they were things like I love I think Ava really like I like going to pubs. Yeah, going to pubs, I love it. You know, just like I like the atmosphere of a pub. I was like, I love singing, I love harmonizing. Harmonizing was a big one. I love puns, I love like yeah, I love creating ideas, like bringing my ideas to life. There was always stuff. I loved walking on dart more, um, I love speaking Spanish. There were there was just things that felt joyful and energizing. And I think at that time, only six of those 24 were on my list, were in my life. So I was like, I know I love these things, but these are not in my life. And it was quite confronting because especially music, like I really wasn't doing much music at all. And I was like, this is my main love, and the thing that brings me the most joy. And I was just like, I work in an office, it was quite sad, like a real grief moment of like, huh, this is the thing that apparently I love and has been all my core memories. Well, feeling the happiest, and it's like I just don't, it's just not in my life.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Interesting, yeah.

Vienna And The Office Ukulele Choir

SPEAKER_01 25:36

And then yeah, I've gone back to that list of every year, and it's it's definitely increased. But that yeah, the thing I just started doing experiments to bring them into my life more, and and also following the aliveness, right? So there's a there's a quite a funny, a curious story, is that I I had this moment in I think it was the summer 2012, it was when I went I went to one of their talks um about this before I did this course. I was just like went to an evening for scanners, which was people who are like have lots of ideas and like to have a kind of wide range of interests. Um, I think it's Barbara Cher who came up with it, the concept. And I went to that and they said, Yeah, come up with your top six high points of your life. And they were all to do with music. And I was like, There's no music in my life, this is devastating. And the next day I had an interview to go and like have a full-time job in this office that I was already working with, which was like a permanent position. And I remember I met my sister for coffee in London Bridge to have some help with the interview prep, and all I wanted to talk about with this was this event I'd been to and and the music, and well, how can I bring and she was like, Look, this is the aliveness, right? Yeah, and then a friend came into the office and was like, Do you want to come work in Vienna? You speak German, don't you? I was like, I mean a bit. And she's like, Yeah, do you want to come to Vienna? And so I so did you get that job? I did, but I also got offered going to Vienna at the same time. I decided on a whim to go to Vienna, that felt more alive. Yes. I think in Vienna that I started teaching the ukulele.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

I started bringing it into the office. So I remember a friend reflecting this to me years later. He was like, You realize you needed to commit to music, and the universe like took you somewhere where you'd be able to do that, but you didn't think that's what you were doing. You thought you were going to work at a startup in Vienna, but but the end of Vienna was like the beginning of my ukulele business because I suddenly so I guess it's like following these impulses, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Yeah. Amazing. What I mean to do. I feel like you're not making much sense, stay faster. No, it's great, it's brilliant. You know, and if people um this is this is how I roll. We're being we're being non-linear, and that's fine. Um, because I that's all I can ever do. So um, we're in Vienna, you're doing a ukulele. Tell us about this. What what what was the how did you bring the ukulele into the office?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

I just I just started, I I had one, right? And I I think like 2012, 2011, 2012, I lived in Argentina for six months, and my house mate played the ukulele, so I started learning it, and then I just got really obsessed with playing the ukulele, and people knew me as like Sarah ukulele. Yeah, still in their phone but have me as Sarah Uke. So when I went to dinner, I just had a ukulele and like I think it was around Christmas time. I said to, I was like, I think we should sing some songs as a staff and like record a little video. And honestly, people were like, This is not top priority, Sarah. I think this is not top prior. Like, you know, the the COO was really like Sarah, like, we've got so much to work on, like, this is not a priority for us to come together and sing.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

What kind of company was it? What was the work?

SPEAKER_01 28:44

It's an educational startup, okay. Um, so they're in their first year, and I was supporting the teachers working in like disadvantaged schools in Vienna.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Okay, wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah, which is really cool. So it's what I'd been doing in the UK, but like setting up the Austrian version.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Okay. So you bring the you bring the ukulele and you've got everyone singing.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

But you see, but the but the CEO was quite up for it, so he emailed the staff, was like, everyone's coming to the staff room at lunch and we're gonna sing a song. Right. Was it Christmas songs? Yeah, we just sang some Christmas songs. Honestly, everyone loved it, and like people were like, Okay, oh, oh, we need to do this more. And then the C COO who'd been really against it, suddenly was like, right, Sarah, we're every time a new staff member arrives, we're gonna say you know, he but it suddenly became built in as strategy. And by the end What happened with the new staff members?

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Oh, just we'd write songs for them and like people sorry, you're gonna have to slow down and tell me more about this. This is fascinating. People got so people are coming in, getting the job, and you're writing a song for them. Oh yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

I used to write songs for new staff members, and then we'd also write songs for the for the groups of students who not students, the um teachers who were teaching who were working in the schools. I would like write songs for them, and like if people left, I'd write a song for them. And just because I did a lot of songwriting, so how lovely. It was just very sweet, but it basically it got to the stage that by the end of the year the entire everyone in the team had like learned the ukulele and they were just amazing. It was like I think I pushed as much music as I could into a thing that was absolutely nothing to do with music, but people loved it, people loved it, and when I left, I was there for a year, I got sent a video of all my staff. They'd rewritten Ring of Fire by Johnny Cash, and it was we turned into a ukulele choir. Anyway, and they were all dancing and singing. And bear in mind, when I joined this company, it was like people weren't talking to each other, people had left from burnout, it was like a total chaos, and I just suddenly saw oh my god, this has been a really powerful shift for the for this group of people. And I this idea dropped in of like, I need to turn this into a company and take this to other companies, and I need to do something like that, something with this. So that's what I mean about like I had said I need to bring more music into my life. I got taken to Vienna to do nothing to do with music, but that it's like the music came, and then I came back and was like, Oh, I have this company, and that's how incredible is my business plan because it's the aliveness was Vienna.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yes. This is this is astounding. So you I just love this story so much, and the fact that you actually changed the culture of I mean the and then presumably so tell us more about the next the next stage, where where you took this from.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

You've come back from Vienna and Vienna and I went, yeah. I think I oh well look, do you know what? I'm gonna have to pretend that that's what happened because there was a whole other chapter of going to Columbia and but for today. Came back from Vienna London. Um this is what I mean. My life has been like where now, where now, but I'm telling you the linear story of this part of it.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

Yes.

Power Of Uke As Leadership Training

SPEAKER_01 32:02

But if you actually looked at the timeline, you would see many other things weaving in around this time as well. But I think that's been important because I haven't just focused on one thing. Yes, I have had many threads concurrently and each other, and I feel it's as similar as having like a wide group of friends, you know, different people for different things, and actually to commit to just one project means actually limiting some of that variety. But in the linear story of Power of Uke, which is what this business is called, I started running ukulele meetups. It was called Chukaleles. Um I yeah, just kind of invited people to come and like learn the ukulele with me in a bar in Brixton and then started to think about how to package it as like a leadership. Well, actually not as a leadership thing, I was as a team building thing. Um and yeah, if you watch my talk, you'll see this in more depth. But essentially it's ended up becoming a leadership, a leadership workshop where people learn their ukulele from scratch. And through my coaching, I get them to reflect on themselves. I use this kind of, I guess, a trigger of like all that it brings up when you're asked to play music in front of others. And like for people, you most people have quite a strong reaction to that. Um fear of being seen, the vulnerability, not wanting to get things wrong, like feeling so out their comfort zone. And we bring that all up and then we work with it. So people go of this journey from feeling totally unmusical and uncreative and fearful to feeling comfortable. And by the end of the workshop, they have written and performed a team song and they're and they're singing in front of their colleagues, and it's all in about three hours, and it's a total transformation. And I know people talk about this is a transformational workshop. Well, this actually is. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

I love that so much, Sarah. And I mean, I don't know if people listening are aware of this or whether I told you when when we met, but I studied music as a therapeutic art for one year before I then followed my aliveness and went, This isn't what I need. I'd met my now love and moved to Barcelona on a total whim. You know, just like you were saying about going to Vienna, I did the same. I like just, oh no, that's where I need to be now, Plonc. And um, so yeah, I just I love what you're I love what you're talking about. I really strongly relate. Um, and I think you know, for a lot of now, how do we feel about saying this? Like it feels like a lot of women um are experiencing life in a non-linear way like this, you know, that that that the the it's more um I'm making this movement with my hand like meandering, you know, like a river that we're not going direct, like it's not always such a direct line.

The Carousel Model For Nonlinear Careers

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Well, I think this is the the mod so I I work a lot in frameworks, it's weird. I'm very creative and I'm also very structured, and that means that I often create structures.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

So one of those is called the carousel model, and it's this idea of like what I realized years ago. So this is part of like me coming in and out of focus with things, is I would work on something for ages and then I wouldn't do it for a while, and then I'd do it again, and I was like, gosh, why am I so unfocused? No, no, no, no. It's just like coming in and out of the is coming in and out around the carousel, like you know, like the yo sushi conveyor belt. Yeah, like you get a little bit of sushi and it goes around, and then you're like, and then oh, it's coming back. Oh, I missed it. So this idea of like whatever's in front of us is what we're with, yeah. And then things have a little break from us and they come back. So I really started to see like I'll have things that are like really big in my life, like DJing or comedy, and then they will not be in my life for a bit, and then I'll be like, oh, they're back again. And so that's also where I feel about things being cyclical, yeah. Um but yeah, I think the thing that I also want to mention about this ukulele stuff is that it then got to the point where around 2019, where it was like a really big part of my life, and then I suddenly was like, Oh, it's not alive anymore.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

And you when you're saying really big, you were going into big, big corporations, weren't you, doing this? I mean it got big, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

I had the vision in 2013 when I saw the video from the Teach for Austria people, and there was like I was like, Oh yeah, this is gonna be in big companies. I don't know. I just was like, I need to do it. Yeah, so that happens, yeah. And as you as a lovely full circle, we've been going back to Vienna to work with the Central Austrian bank. So I've actually been going back to where it all began.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Yeah, so the ukulele, and that's still power view, that's that's still happening.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

It's still happening, yeah, yeah. So it's still happening, and I hired a team of people to be um trade, they're they're trained up to work on it. Yes, and I'm in the process at the moment of thinking about where where to be with it next. So the way I see some of these things, and I think in 2020 I made this visual, which is on my website of like it was a decade in drawings. So I looked from like 2010 to 2020, and I was like, you know, there's things when they're at idea stage and I'm not being paid, and then they're kind of like pocket money, and then they like actually become a thing, and then they start earning good money. And they was I was just watching all of the the different projects were like working their way up. So, you know, PowerView started with like no money, just me playing the ukulele, and then it went to oh, I'll play in a bar and get five pounds per person, and then it was like, Oh, I'll do a team day, and it was a you know, a couple of hundred quid, and then it was like, right, big, big contracts. So I started to see that like things were working their way up, yeah. And that was that was really good to see that these ideas did progress and did if I wanted them to be, would turn into more.

From Living Room Singing To Glastonbury

SPEAKER_03 38:12

So I want to ask um what I what I want there's I I kind of want to ask what's alive now, like that's my exciting question. Um, and I also am aware that there's parts of the story that I think are fascinating that we've not touched on at all, such as like how you ended up on a stage at Glastonbury singing 90s, this is so 90s karaoke sing along type thing. So uh does that feel like a Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Because I think this is the thing, right? Um each of these stories, I think because it's about the aliveness, there's also a lot of aliveness in them, and in every moment I was like, Oh, that's that was where I went next, and that's where I went next. So yeah, each of these is very rich, and I it's like we're we're opening each one, aren't we? And going, what's what's in that? But yeah, I really hope you to share about the the Glastonbury experience, which is yeah, I kind of pinch myself about. But I um again following the aliveness, so I I say that you know each of the things that I've started starts with something that felt exciting, and with Laley, it was like, Oh, I want I love playing clearly, I love singing with people, and then I around 2019 was like, I love singing with my friends, I love singing in harmony with my friends, harmonizing was one of the things on that list. I brought people, I just put this invite out. I was like, Who wants to come for a weekend of musical joy and like spend the weekend singing together? And then I was like, Oh can't know weekend's quite long, isn't it? Day of musical joy. And I was like, I don't know if I can commit to a weekend. Yeah, the whole thing was like, I love singing with people. I don't know if I want to run a regular choir, but I definitely want to sing with people. So I brought um, yeah, I had it was like maybe 12, 15 people came to the house I was living in. We all brought something for lunch, and and I did some medleys of all saints and some like Greek and a Spanish song, and we just had a lovely time. And like I say this in the talk that I, you know, I had no pressure on it. There was no pressure on it ever happening again. There was just a real feeling of like, oh, I've really enjoyed doing this with my friends. And I think it's almost like a slightly avoidant strategy, business strategy, where you're like, I'm don't worry, mate, I'm not gonna, no cash, like what else, you know, with the idea rather than like please work for me, please make me my millions. Yes, kind of non-attached. Yeah, even yeah, and I don't mean that in a like pretend you know, sometimes you can pretend to be non-attached, like yeah, yeah, pretend I really don't care how if that's goes well. Like you really do care, yeah. I was like, it's not that I didn't care, it's just that that wasn't the point of it. The point of this coming to sing together wasn't to build a new business. No, um, it was to come and sing together. But I was just like, oh, I'll do another one and I'll do another one. Yeah. I remember a coach saying to me years ago, like, being professional isn't like that you have to do things weekly. Like being professional is doing it in a way that works for you, that means you can show up. And I was realizing that I was like, ah, this is how I wanna, this is how I want to do this. I want to book one and then I'll book the next one when I want to. So that it meant I was resourced, it felt alive, there was no obligation. Yeah, these just carried on and carried on, and it got to the point where you know, people were coming, 30 people were coming to my house and just spending the day singing, and everyone was offering songs, and it's like become this beautiful community where people have also shared to me with me like I didn't used to sing and now I love singing, or you know, I I feel very confident now in my in my abilities to sing, which is a lovely byproduct because that wasn't the point of it, but it's become this incubator for that. And we started doing them at festivals. We started doing these little sing-alongs at festivals, and and we we did it at a festival in Wales, where we thought 20 people were gonna come and sing around a piano, and the whole tent was filled with like hundreds of people. Wow. We suddenly realized like this has mass appeal. This is not just like a living room, this is like people want to sing 90 songs together, and people came up to us afterwards and were like, This is being the best night of my life. Like, I know they weren't being hyperbolic, they were just like something was touched that they weren't usually touching, which which happens when we sing. When we sing, we like activate our parasynthetic nervous system, it calms us down, we feel connected to each other, like it's such a natural drug.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

So people don't, when they're not used to it, they're like, What is this? Yeah, god, I feel amazing.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

And something about singing, you know, just songs from the 90s for our generation. Nostalgic, yeah. Nostalgic, yeah, the ones that you know all the words to because you were of that age, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah, so it's beautiful, and then people just like that beautiful thing about I haven't sung a song for 20 years and I still know all the lyrics is also yeah. Anyway, so there was someone in the WhatsApp group for the Sigging Meetups who runs one of the stages at Glastonbury, and I've been a bit involved in in this stage, kind of doing doing artist liaison. Um stage was it, sorry? The Greenpeace stage, yeah, Greenpeace. So I I yeah, I'd been working um kind of backstage for a few years and you know, kind of being like helping artists with their drinks tokens and getting you know, kind of I love it. A really lovely job, but like not a performer. And then he was like, I think we should have this on on the Wednesday night. And the Wednesday night is like when everyone arrives at Glastonbury.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

He was like, I think we should do it, like prime slot.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

And so it went from like I think Because there's nothing else on, is there? Yeah, and I just want to say, Sarah, for the people who are listening who are not in Britain, they actually don't know. I I've I'm aware I thought everybody in the world knew what Glastonbury was. But turns out in the States they've got no idea. So it well, I'm sure some people know, but the people I've spoken to are like, no, I've no idea. So Glastonbury Music Festival is like the I think it's the biggest one in Europe.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, it's like it's no, no, a little more. 200,000 people or something. It's the size of Bristol.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

It's the size of Bristol, did you say? The site is the city. Yeah, it's just enormous. And and I mean I've had a I had a yeah, same as you, kind of working at Glastonbury every year for a long time and a long love affair with the place. Um I'm just gonna find out. Go on, t tell us um keep going with the story. So you've got you got the Wednesday night, and this is before the main stages that are actually doing this. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

So it's so basically we we were like we didn't wasn't sure how many people were gonna be there, but we me and two my two like singers. So I play the piano and I have two singers, and we just basically do loads of medley's of songs, and we also do the songs of this of the per of the acts that are gonna be on at Glastonbury as well. Oh great! Oh brilliant! Like all of the songs, like all of the 90s and noughties bands that were like on that year. So I can't remember it was Avril Levine, Shania Twain, things like that in 2019. Anyway, we had we had like three and a half thousand people turn up, and it was like the most that the stage had ever seen on that on that day. And like the people who programmed the stage were like their eyes are like wide, and they're like, Whoa, okay, that like brought a huge pull, and it was incredible, and like we they people were just like this is this is amazing, like that. That was people really needed that, you know. And but so then it happened again this year. But what was interesting is because it'd gone really well, I think other stages started um also wanting to program stuff on Wednesday night. So I found out that the pyramid stage was also having a Wednesday night programming. And and I and it I felt my like heart sink because I thought we've got to be prepared that like not as many people come this year. Potentially no one comes because the pyramid stage have got and they're the biggest stage. So we walked out and it was like more people than than the previous year.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Wow, and they're still on the same stage, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

So actually, like it didn't it didn't matter. It didn't matter about the pyramid stage, people still wanted it, people still wanted to come. Yeah. Um, and the BBC, um, because we were doing there was something on our stage later on the weekend that was getting BBC coverage, they were around and they were like, we're just gonna film this. So we ended up getting on BBC breakfast um with our 90s sing-along. So good. It's real like pinch me moments, and and we just yeah, it was such an incredible buzz. And I think my my absolute like I know this is this probably says says a lot, but I had a moment watching Alanus Morissette on the Friday night, and this I got spotted in the crowd by someone. She's like, excuse me, did you do the 90s sing along? And I was like, Yeah, so then we've done an Alanus medley. I think she was like, I actually think yours was better. Yeah, hilarious. Obviously, it wasn't the actual Alanus, but it's nice to say it. Correct. That was a moment of like in the whole crowd of the pyramid stages. They were like, and they were like, We we were really so tired, and then we came and we took the pen on. She was like, It was the best thing ever. Highlight of glass number.

Why Group Singing Hits So Deep

SPEAKER_03 47:25

I love this. Okay, and now, Sarah, a more serious question. What is it about now? I mean, like, I think that we do like my god, we need this. I yeah, like what you're saying, people like the people there, the stage, they were saying, Yeah, people need this, and that's a strong word, isn't it, for a 90s sing-along? You know, I I mean, with all the respect in the world, people need this. Like, okay, let's dig into that. Why do people need this so much? What what what is what is the this that it does for like what's happening there?

SPEAKER_01 48:01

So, one thing we've made a decision with a night sing along is not to have lyrics up. So there's something about it being completely non-techie. You're not looking at a screen, yes, yeah. You're just looking at each other. There's there's the feeling of singing together, singing in a big group, which I think is like one of life's joys. It's like literally what it's doing to your nervous system to be singing at all, but singing with a big group, apparently our hearts sink up or something biological about our hearts as well, like we're eating at the same time. Yeah, co-regulating, that's it. What's the word co-regulate?

SPEAKER_03 48:38

Co-regulating this totally.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

And our and our we we calm our nervous system down. So to do that with like thousands of people.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

God, it must have felt insane. It's the energy there must have been incredible. I mean, where where do you even where do you even get to sing with that many people? Like that that's way bigger than any choir.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Well, exactly. Well, that's the thing I say. I guess a big concert when everyone's singing you know, I say that I was like, This is this is about the crowd. We're just facilitating it and encouraging the crowd. So that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

We're not like and it's but it's also it's not like I'm thinking, yeah, well, when you go to a concert, everybody sings along because they know it, but it's not about it's not like I mean, obviously the performer likes it, I'm sure, when everyone's singing their song, but when maybe it's slightly different in that they're kind of the the that's the point is that they're singing, like they're really invited to do that, and that it just must yeah, I don't know. There's something just about coming together, isn't it? Do you think that's what it is?

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Do you think that's why they were saying that people need it so yeah, feeling united, like the act of saying the act of being in connection with others, excuse me. Um the nostalgia, and I think the kind of pain, maybe like connecting with the time a less complicated time, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

And so which is your favourite 90th song to get everyone going?

SPEAKER_01 50:14

A Robbie Williams medley that I I absolutely adore, and I had it my 40th this summer, and we did a big Robbie C along, and that was like a life a peak life moment. Oh, good. Just having all my friends and family singing angels together and like oh Sarah, it's very inspiring.

SPEAKER_03 50:31

It's my birthday this month. I'm not it's I'm not 40 this year, I'm 40 next year, so maybe I'll save that for then maybe I can get you to come in that.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

That'll be so much fun. Um yeah. But I was thinking because I it's my birthday the 27th of December, and so it's a bit of a rough time to have a birthday traditionally, but I've made peace with it finally at the grand old age of 38 or something, and realised that the time to do the party's New Year's Eve because then people are like well up for it again. Um but um and so this year I was thinking of having a party and actually getting people I feel like singing is such an important thing, and I've I've realized, yeah, I'm gonna ask people to come and bring a song to offer, you know, to get people singing, and I just love that.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

I I think I underestimated for years because I've always had singing as part of my life through school, through being in choirs, through musicals, and just because I love it. I think I was just like, oh yeah. But as I venture into sharing music more widely, I realize it's not something everyone has. And in fact, some of them have a lot of fear around it and a real block around it, and and a real resistance. And a lot of people have had, you know, experiences at school where they've been told you're not musical, don't sing. Shush, you know, or you can't sing.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

I feel like saying you can't sing is like saying you can't eat or something. Right. It's like it's just not it's not really about whether you can or not, it's like you you just do.

SPEAKER_03 52:10

Yeah. Yeah, well, it's the value judgment, isn't it? You know, I mean, I talk about this with a good friend of mine who's an artist all the time. Well, not all the time, but quite often, you know, how there's this most people now are consumers of arts, the arts, you know, there's like a few elite who are the artists, the artists, and then everyone else is the consumer. We just, you know, the the masses, we're just here to like soak it in. And that that that agency, that power, that kind of realizing that actually we're all artists, we can all just sing, we can create, you know, and we're so used to kind of judging everything as being good or bad, aren't we? You know, instead of actually just creating.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

Well, it's like another example is like walking. You don't tend to walk down the street and be like, oh, that's a weird walk, or that's a good walk. Right. Yeah.

unknown 53:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

You know, it's something we just do because it's and I feel like singing, it's like a thing that we've you don't judge people's walking, you're so right.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

Yeah, it's just how they do it.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

And there's no silly walks in Monte Plata. But I do know what I mean. I feel like this is a good example there of something that's like every day that we all just do, and we're not really looking at it because we're just like, oh, it's just something you have to do in your life. Or and also this is very ableist to say like people of some people can't walk at all, but it if you are enable walk, it's I guess we're not quite we're not looking at people's walks.

SPEAKER_04 53:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Um yeah, we do that thing, and actually it's like just I don't know. So yeah, it's interesting that like I think what like I say, this is the kind of as as time's gone on, and maybe as a creative portfolio career person, if you are listening to this and you identify, I think you need a few years before you see the themes. I think when you're at the beginning of having a portfolio career, you're not you're still working just, and I guess this is my advice is just just be in it, be in the experimentation, because at some point you will look back and be like, oh, though. So for me, it's like, oh, I'm I'm it turns out like I'm really a big part of my life is bringing music back into people's lives and making it non-issue to sing non-issue, let's just do it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Yeah, it's not it's amazing that you can do that in just a few hours, you know. Like you said earlier, in a three-hour workshop, by the end, people who thought they couldn't sing are create are they like writing songs and performing? Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

I'm just like we're doing it, and I think that's the thing. I maybe because that is one thing I haven't struggled with so much.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

But like I do, I've just always enjoyed I'd be like, maybe it's the primary school I went to that was just like play the recorder, even if you're crap, and like you know, just have a go. And like it was there was never like you have to be good to perform. Yeah, which I think is a really like amazing first experience of music to have.

SPEAKER_04 55:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

Um so I think maybe I bring that into these experiences idea, which is like, should we just do it? Yeah, should I should we just do it? And like this isn't I don't I don't want it to be good. I actually don't want it to be good.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

I think I basically found a way of like bringing my chaotic way of working into like actually packaging it. It's like let's be chaotic, let's make it messy, let's try. And people are now like, we want this.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

Yeah, because we've there's people are perfectionists, aren't they? So many people are just like, you know, will can never um publish things because until it's perfect, and I don't know, I really relate. I think probably a lot of people will relate I don't know, I just that permission to just do it. It's so beautiful, isn't it? I bet people who come to your workshops must absolutely love you. And and then I wonder what would be so interesting, and maybe you know this, is how does that, you know, if somebody comes to a workshop like that, I wonder how they are six months later. I wonder if that has a uh knock-on kind of lasting impact, that ability.

SPEAKER_01 56:24

I've definitely I haven't ever actually done any like long-term studies of the workshop, but I have heard from people anecdotally that it's had a big impact on connection or per often personally, if I'm honest, they'll say I've now rediscovered my creativity, like and what a gift because I really think holistically with work, and a lot of some of the work I do now is I've gone full circle and I work in schools as a coach for teachers, so I go and support them with their well-being. Right. I always just say, like, whatever's going on in your life is is part of your work. So you know, bringing creativity to people, which then means that they pick up the guitar at home, is impacting their work. Yes, this well-roundedness, this holistic way of being.

What Feels Alive Right Now

SPEAKER_03 57:07

Yeah. Beautiful, Sarah. Okay, so tell us what's alive for you now.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

Yeah. Well, I guess slightly maybe it's like slightly paradoxical, but what's alive is the ending of something. So I'm really with um, yeah, one of the ventures that I work on, which I am not public about yet. So one of the things in my life is is something that I'm like shifting my focus on. Uh so I'm with the kind of like, how do I what is I've never done this before. So I've closed things, but it has continued without me. So I'm really with this question at the moment of like, what does it look like for something to continue for me to change my involvement? Who do I need to bring in? Who can I've created? And I'm and I'm seeing it now as like a kind of a venture in itself to be like, how can I explore this ending from a place of curiosity? Um, so yeah, that's the kind of big thing that I'm with that will be a theme for 2026. And then the other one, which I'm sure you're excited to talk about, is Cypher.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

We definitely had a connection, didn't we, about the about the Cytrance uh at Summer Camp.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

This is such and I talk a bit about this in the talk as well, is that in the summer I got a lot of my work cancelled.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

Um and yeah, I and you went to Boom. Hang on, you did, didn't you? You went to Boom.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

I'd already booked that before. Okay. But I got all my work cancelled, not not not all. I got a big chunk of my work cancelled.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

Not by you, yeah.

Boom Festival Sparks SciFit

SPEAKER_01 58:46

No, not by me. Um just like because I work a lot in schools and they're not like run out of money, sadly, or like don't have having to re-prioritize their funds. So kind of got told, like, you know, we're gonna have to reduce your hours. Felt very stressed about it, but I also had this real trust of like, okay, I think there's a redirect here. And I re I know it's I don't want to be as like spiritual bypassing, and I think it can be helpful to be curious when things get cancelled or when when things don't work out of like, hmm, is there anything about this that could be good? Is there anything about this that's actually an opportunity? Obviously, deal with the shame coming up, deal with all of the frustration and the money worries. And I had this feeling of like, okay, there's this space now, this space for something. And I wonder what will go in that space. And I almost was like, let's just see. And then yeah, I went to Boom Festival, which is a PsyTrance festival, and I danced for a week um to PsyTrance, and I came back home, and I my housemate and another friend were around, and they said, What is PsyTrance? And I put it on and danced to them and got them up and was kind of like talking them through how the music works and how there's these breaks, and then you go and like let's go. And like, and they were literally looked at me and were like, mate, you should run this as an exercise class. This is brilliant. And I was like, Okay, yeah, lolf, side fit, you know, kind of it just dropped in of like, and then I started telling people as a joke, I'm gonna start a side trance exercise class. But obviously, when things are light, and I think you were saying this before that was you know, one of the projects in your life, you're like, Oh, it's kind of a hobby, and then it's light, and like it's so important. I just was like, I'm gonna start this thing, and then I spoke to my gym and was like, What would I need to do to get like a class on here? And they were like, Yeah, just chat to the owner, spoke to the owner. So easy, it can be so easy, yeah. I also was like, I think it needs to be Mondays at 7 pm. Spoke to him and he was like, We've got Mondays at 7 p.m. I was like, Yeah, that's when it needs to be. Great. So good. And then I was just like, That's that's lush.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

Um Yeah, and so do you do you Jay? Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

So I was in like I'm kind of facilitating it, I guess a bit slightly like a comedy five rhythm. So like we start at the beginning with a warm-up, and then I have tracks lined up, and each track will have an invitation. So I might be like, think about something you're letting go of, or something you're thinking about, or like something that you want to call in, or but then some of them will be like kind of a bit tongue-in-cheek as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:15

Oh, this is hilarious! I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:17

Like we have a I've got a sci trance version of Toxic by Britney Spears. So think of something in your life that's like a little bit toxic, and then you like dance with it, and then kind of enjoy, also enjoy the fact that you love it, and then you have to let it go, and like so you're kind of this like playful stuff. But every couple of tracks, I have a palette cleanser, so we wait from the sci-chance, or some 90s cheese, or some 80s, rewrite the lyrics so it will be like I go to sci-fi, and I'll just get it, or it's cypher, and that's the way it is, you know, etc. Um, I wish it could be cypher every day was the Christmas one. Oh my god, in the 90s sing-along aspect as well, a bit of facilitation, a bit of coaching, a bit of like depth and shedding, and there's movement, so people are always in their body, and then we have the sacred pause. So every time the beats, the bass stops, you just like stand, you breathe, you wait, you ground, and then you're back. And this gym is outside, so we've been in the elements, we've been in like outside, yeah. It's been like rainy stormy, and we just went in side trance, like that's how you have to be for science. Like, you know. Oh my god. This is a cipher, and it's yeah, we did four.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:40

It's almost worth moving to Brighton for, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

You better not stop it soon. Yeah, so I did I did four sessions this side of Christmas, and then we're gonna try again in the new year. How's it being received? I mean, who's coming? Who the hell?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

Who asked? Who is coming? Who are you? Are they like Cytrance lovers or are they new to it?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Interesting, yeah. A big mix. So some people are my mates who are like, we'll go and support Sarah. Yeah, yeah. Some people like are there because they're like, I love Csytrance. Some people are there because and this is quite crucial, they want to move their bodies, but they don't like traditional exercise classes. They're like do something that's not so demanding or so almost because it's tricking people into getting fit. It's like fake, it's like Trojan cardio. You just like I just did I just danced for an hour. I just got really part way up. But you're thinking you're like, right, now step, and now do you have to know? I maybe made people score and people doing like so. I think there's people who are like reluctant exercises, some people who love the music, um, and some people, yeah, I'd say it's a bit a mix, and then people just found it on Instagram and people saw it on the website of the gym. And I've had a whole load of people come. Yeah, it's been well attended. Well attended for the winter months, yes. Amazing. We'll have a real following, and then we're gonna do like a big dance along on the beach. Sci fit, 100 people, just oh my god, maybe a thousand, maybe three thousand.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:10

Sounds so much fun. Oh my god, how can people find out about this?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

Sci-fit, Instagram at SciFit.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:18

At SciFit P S Y. Great. Yeah, I love I love it. I just wish you were close. I mean, it's a joke that's got out of hand, but this is I mean, I uh recently an Israeli family came and moved to our area, and uh what I love about well, in my psytrance back uh past life, I remember connecting with so many beautiful Israelis on the dance floor at Boom because there's a big contingent. I've been to Boom twice, yeah. I cycled there. Yeah, oh my god, and boom, like sometimes you know what you were saying about get finding your well, I think you said the six high points of your life. When I I remember reading, I think it was Danielle Laporte's um design map experience. Um and I didn't I don't think I read I didn't get I didn't read the book or anything. I just like I got one thing from her which was a similar thing, like look back at the kind of peak moments of your life and and then look for the threads. Like what was what were the things that are often there in those peak moments? And for me it was like dancing outside, you know, like and like boom, being on the dance floor at boom, I think is like a peak moment of my life. Whenever I want to like tap into a happy place, that's where I end up, you know, like my bare feet in the sand, and the the like the sound system is the best sound system in the world I've ever heard.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:59

Do you know? thing about the sound system and why it's so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:02

I did go no tell tell us.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:05

What you know often if you're at a rave you can't speak to people because they have taken out the the frequencies that are the at voice level. Yes. You have the bass and you have everything else each other. It's amazing. You can have like a conversation you can have a full-on conversation while there's like the biggest rave of your life. And I when I found that out was Ars Genius.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

I went to I mean I when you said do you know about the speakers I was like oh I do know something about them but I can't remember what it was because I went to the talk with the guy who made the speakers at Boom like I rem vaguely remember doing that. And I remember them saying it was like the most incredible sound system ever but I couldn't remember why so thanks for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

You've oh that's all right filled me in.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:47

But yeah incredible sound system beautiful human beings who are just like so much love between I mean I don't know how it was for you but I just remember people just I mean when you've been dancing and in the sun for a week I don't know the kindest people the kindest you're just on another level somehow.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:09

It's like a week long sound bath like the going through your system that also felt cleansed every day by the totally cleansed by a lake yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:21

And you're working out really basically all day this is why I think people love Glaston Reefs.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

They're basically hiking every day for like 20k aren't they? Yeah but also and and singing and hearing music and look at the elements that are here it's not the festival necessarily it's what because you go to a festival and not sing and not really do much exercise and sit around.

Finding The Threads In Peak Moments

SPEAKER_03 1:07:43

Yeah and drink loads of beer that's my blast me everyone because they're basically doing they're doing a Camino so much more I mean I mean everyone's got their own version. This is the beautiful thing isn't it is like for you and I it sounds like there's a lot of really similar threads that when we look back at our kind of happy points and then try and stitch together a life and you know I I've been through a similar process um as what you're talking about looking for these six high points of your life and then you know how can I work that into my daily life how can I build a business from that you know that makes those things part of my daily life we might come up with similar things. But then some for somebody else it might be something else can well it will be because everyone's different.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Yeah and it's also I was talking to my PT about this yesterday actually because he was like I don't understand why not everyone's so worried about their bodies and like get aging well and I was like this is why you're a PT because you're really passionate about this. I was like other people it's the planet I was like it's like I want to make sure that people because I do the the singing is one thing but the thing that really lights me up is seeing people find the thing that lights them up. Yes I love helping people find their high points and that's your thing because there's a ding moment when you see that someone's connected with the thing they love which is just so much energy and this is goes back full circle to what I said at the start about how I experienced teaching I was like this is not ding that some of it is something that's not quite right and can I find and and I know what I love is I get to do the best bits of teaching which is I love holding space. I love kind of groups actually I love designing sessions. I love the community that's in a school and I've thought about community in Brighton but I don't want to teach teenagers because it's not my zone of genius.

Small Steps Toward A Brighter Life

SPEAKER_03 1:09:45

Yeah but it's like I think often when things don't this is what I often say to people who career change I say find the bits of this that you do love because we need a new context don't take it all away um there will be a bit of it that is resonating but what is the context where it does ding zing you know yeah and I love that you're mentioning that and so for somebody who's listening then who's maybe in a bit of a a rut um who kind of gets understands yeah okay these are the things I need to look back I need to look for the the things my my you know high points I need to find the things that light me up what what maybe as we wrap up like how would you like to leave what would you like to leave them with as a you know bit of inspiration perhaps yeah so I think it can be really courageous to look at the things that light you up because what may happen is that you realise it's not really in your life much and that can be what that's what happened to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

So I'd say first of all even looking at this stuff is courageous. So like well done if you are like being brave enough to go okay what are the moments where I've truly felt alive or joyful or successful or like whatever whatever the kind of desired feeling is for you um happy if that resonates but you know what are the moments when you look back where you were just like yes that all parts of me felt felt good there that all parts of me came together I felt relaxed I felt alive I felt joyful I felt respected like all the things you know competent and really look like what are some like we were just saying like what are the themes what was your present in them all and then the invitation is like one of those threads see like how can you bring that into your life a little bit more and what often people do when they realize this is they get oh my god gotta like quit my job and then become a professional dancer or you know is like and then that's like far too overwhelming. But the thing that I I really love is you just start bringing a bit of that in you just start bringing a bit of that in. So if what comes out of it is then my happiest moments have been gardening for example or being in nature or walking or one-on-one time with a really good friend like I just remember these epic conversations with someone over a cup of tea or maybe my maybe your maybe your high points have been when you've felt really good at work and you've actually just done something that you feel really proud of and like how can you create more of that because that's telling you if you if you do more of that then your life is going to feel more of that. So I think it's yeah have the bravery and the courage to look at it see if you can identify some themes and then yeah look at um how you can bring more of it into your life. So just as an example with my music I I think I had this realization I'm not doing enough music and then I think I just when I lived in Vienna I was like I'm gonna go and join some jam sessions or I'm gonna like write some songs in my house or I'm gonna like even just put music on I don't know it was it was very small at the beginning it was just like let's just bring this into my life a bit more because it's not in my life um you know with things around yeah there were just all sorts of things and this is what I help people with really is like try this I guess this is my life philosophy and it's the way I you know your life is your message right so the way I've lived my life is to continue to be like what's lighting me up but it's also what I believe it we all need. It might not you may not agree with that like people listening you might not agree that this is the most important thing but I believe when we find these things that really resonate and really feel easeful we have so much more energy for them we're able to support the world and you know anyone who's like feeling like they want to make a difference in the world in a really big time of crisis I want I think one of your best resources is your own resourcefulness which comes from not draining yourself with things that aren't working but being like what are the things that resource me rather than drain me so this is why I think this is so important.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:09

This is this is about having the energy to make a difference rather than being burnt out where you really can't make a difference if you're oh Sarah that was amazing and I'm just so with you on that and I, you know my wish with yours as well for anyone listening to this just yeah bring in a little bit more of what lights you up just that one just pick one thread and start to like weave that one thread through your life and see where it goes from there.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:43

And and I think often we don't notice or value the things that are truly useful for us. Yeah thing I'd say is you may interestingly you may not even pick out these things because they may seem so obvious. Ask others yeah is the thing that I do really well. So I for example I have a friend who's an incredible cook for her it's so easy. She doesn't value it and she always says I'm just it's just cooking it's just following a recipe and I'm like no no you don't understand like it's yeah star meals when you're just like rock something up but she doesn't value it because it's so easy for that. Yeah and I think this is the thing we often just and I remember actually I remember about maybe five years ago something one of my coaches being like do you know like you're really good at building community I was like am I? She's like yeah you just like build community yeah I was like I guess I do but I literally never even noticed because that's the same that same kind of thing that you were talking about earlier of just like just do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:45

Let's should we just do it? Should we just shall I just do it? Shall I just bring it all together? Let's just do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:51

But I also see that for some people it's not energizing to do community stuff also or teaching right like I love helping people to like have experiences of things that I've had so like when I hadn't done comedy and then I was like I'm gonna help others get into comedy I love that feeling of like you can do something that's hard I I promise you you know I'm a few steps ahead and I can help you with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:11

But I remember meeting another comedian who was like oh this person wants support with their comedy like I can't be bothered to do that. Yeah this isn't a given that you help people do like this is something I naturally love doing. Yeah so this is the thing I would say to people is like no you might these are hidden these real dream like portals of energy and abundance of of resource are often a bit hidden in plain sight. So ask the people around you what is it I do? What is it you see that I do that I might not notice I do because many people it's just assume that they know because it's so obvious and so much part of them. Yeah beautiful I love that and I think I've heard somebody say when talking about a similar subject like what do people tend to ask you for help with because that that can be a weighing can't it like the thing that that people see in you and then they they want you to help my sister always says with me she's like puns pricing and playlists that's you I love that you need a pun you need you need help with pricing or you need a playlist I'm like yep got it I also think what's the thing that even if you're exhausted you still have energy for yeah that's fun that's an interesting one like even if you're like I'm ill and I'm kind of about to like drop what do you still find energy because that's also a real clue.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

It's amazing isn't it I mean I'm really grateful that I've I feel like I've somehow I've put together a business that just does not drain me at all. It gives me so much energy and I was just saying to my partner I've got more clients than I've ever had and I'm doing all these client sessions and I'm just like loving it. You know like just like I love I love digging right into their psyche you know and like getting right to the bottom some people would find that so draining but for me it's just so energizing.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

But so you found your thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:06

Yeah I and I love it and I love that I can now be I can be a role model for my kids like you can do this you can find it like I found the thing that is perfect for me and you can do that. Like that's your job that's your job just to find what's perfect for you. And do you believe that we have one thing and that we have to find or do you think that it's like at different points in your life it's like what's resonating yeah different I mean it wouldn't have been my thing that the exact thing I'm doing now wouldn't have fit where I was in my like in my twenties um at that point it was very much just travel and music and um parties and dancing and you know that kind of thing. I think for where I am now I I don't know that's an interesting question and it's certainly been for the last when do I I trained in 2019 so like six years almost to the day that I got my certificate and I'm just loving it more and more. So I I I don't I never had that before but now I seem to and like because it's my own business I'm kind of adding different strands to it but it all seems to kind of be quite coherent for now but that you know it's only six years so we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:26

I think that's the other thing I always say to people as well is as as you get older you're also you're collecting skills so it's spiral right it's it's not like I'm doing this and then I'm gonna start completely from zero. You're building you're always building you're always taking with you so what you're doing now will also be taking things that you've done before and if you have something next you'd take this stuff so it's like I do think people are like oh I can't start from scratch you're like you're not starting from scratch you're starting maybe you've got 20 years of experience in something.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:55

And the really amazing thing about my story is that it makes perfect sense when I look back like from this exact moment where I am I can honestly say Sarah that when I look back to like be I went to music college when I was 17 and and I was like at the time I I felt like all this I just wish that you'd been there teaching your amazing way of teaching because I was a singer and everyone else was an instrumentalist and I couldn't play an instrument not really not very well and all I wanted to do was sing but I felt like not enough not good enough because I couldn't do the instrument and then everyone else was like writing music and I couldn't really or I felt like I couldn't write music but probably it was just like insecurity and not feeling good enough and not having had that hand holding and that like encouragement which really that's what I was there for so it should have anyway that's another story but um I felt like just not enough and then I toured with a band for a bit and um and that was fun and then I left that and I went travelling and it just felt very bitty. And I think that's what you're you know for me that was what was alive I was I never was interested in making money or a business out of any of it. I was just having fun and I was working as a waitress and then I'd quit my job and then I'd like go cycle around like through continents you know doing wild stuff and um why am I saying this like now as I look back even that time at music college when I sat through like the recording sessions of how to record and now I'm making a podcast and I'm like do you know what that makes perfect sense like I can use all those skills that I that I thought maybe you know it would be easy to look back on and go, well that was a waste of time or whatever and then but from a different perspective but then actually when you find like for me it's been that when I found the thing or when I found well like I say the thing but what what's alive for me now actually is drawing on so many of those experiences that didn't seem to feel linear.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:07

Right I always Steve Jobs coined the connect the dots thing didn't he because when he was at uni he was like I'm gonna do this like calligraphy course or something and it was just like really interesting calligraphy and then it ended up like when he was creating the fonts for Apple he was like oh I actually know loads about this really I don't yeah these beautiful things of like his knowledge of something very random then supported him later. I love that beautiful yeah so nothing is random I think this is the thing as well it's like trust where you're being drawn to even if you don't quite understand why yet like that's what I've got Vienna that's what you've had with I mean we haven't even talked about the house in Brighton but you know if you watch the talk you'll see about the the place I've set up in Brighton and you know just these little nudges of I think this is where I've got to go next and um I always have this phrase which my coach helped me with which is like send me where I'm needed I just don't really trust I'm like where am I needed next yeah like whether that's a particular client or it a whole industry.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:05

Yeah maybe that sounds a bit I don't know if that sounds it sounds it's great isn't it I mean but you need to need to be able to listen don't you would you say yeah yeah that the listening skills are vital because you need to know well you need to listen to what yourself. And I think a lot of people struggle with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:26

Yeah it's like carrying out orders from something else like okay this is where I'm I'm now rather than like I need to make this happen. It's just like with sci-fi it was just like okay this is happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:36

Yeah. Anyway oh Sarah I we've gone way we've well I mean hopefully tight you're all right for time I for I'm all over time yeah um so yeah thanks so much it's it's been an absolute joy to have you on so much fun I just love I love that you're just all about the fun that's what I get from you and like you know this aliveness and yeah just so inspiring and I think that really you know I don't know I feel like this era that we're in is what people need to hear like I totally agree with the the people of the organizers at the stage at Glass and Bree like yeah what you're offering this is so what people need. Can I say yeah thank you for bringing it into the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:21

Years and years of doing something I'm like I'm not really sure if this resonating and now it's like oh I'm now well placed for like and so it's also that I'd say to people is like trust what you've been working on because there'll be a moment where it's like oh yeah here's it's the moment for it.

Where To Find Sarah And Closing CTA

SPEAKER_03 1:24:35

Yeah oh I think that's a beautiful place to um draw the conversation to a close and thank you so much for bringing all your lovely energy um onto the podcast I'm sure people will have really enjoyed listening and if they are in Brighton obviously they can come along to SciFit and uh where else can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:59

So I have a Substack where I talk about this kind of this idea of the carousel and different being with what's alive. So I hope maybe there'll be a link in the show notes but carousel substack um my website is where everything lives so you can see like backlog of my comedy songs my like frameworks um you know a TED talk I did around quitting I mean I haven't even talked about the quitting stuff but this is the thing I'd love to come back have a little rummage on the website and see like see what themes might be interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:31

And then obviously I do one-to-one coaching with people so I really love supporting people with finding their thing bring making it happen oh great okay something to a close that isn't alive I also love supporting people with that like beautiful endings I call it um I love that kind of find find a kind of resolution um and dreaming up the next phase and like really tuning into what's there so if any of that resonates and you want some support um yeah you can find all details of that on my website as well amazing beautiful and will you be at summer camp uh next year as well Sarah do you think yeah great okay will you be offering some sci fi if they have me I mean I would I would like to I'd like to um pitch it yeah yeah great I'm sure how could they not want that I mean there are yeah that is a good question it's a good question I think that's my day how could they not how could they not want me all right darling it's been an absolute pleasure having you on thank you so much we'll see um maybe come again come come back another time thanks so much Sarah bye for now that was my conversation with Sarah Wyler and you can find Sarah at Sarah Weiler that's w e I L E Rot com and you can find out all about everything she does all the amazing things that she's doing so Sarahwyler.com to find out more about Sarah I hope you enjoyed that conversation half as much as I did and I would love to just sit with that question that she left us what are the moments when you look back and think yes all parts of me came together there and that's that's a beautiful question isn't it one that deserves a little bit of our time to reflect when were you happiest? When did all parts of you kind of come online and if you don't know the answer to that then yeah might be one to sit with and if it feels like the answer is pointing at something that actually feels scary Or intimidating, or maybe even just downright terrifying to follow. Maybe there's a path that you know you want to follow, a path you know you want to take. Everything's pointing at you doing this one thing, but it feels really scary. It might be that there are some aspects of you that need some healing. And if that is the case, then that's really this is where I come in. This is my expertise. So if you are available on the 7th of May 2026 at 2 p.m., I think it's 2 pm, let me just check. Uh 1 pm British time. Um come along to my workshop. It's free. And it's called Heal Your Past, Grow Your Business, Change the World. And it's for the kind of person that Sarah was describing. Someone who knows what they need to be doing, someone who knows what lights them up, and they just can't seem to bring themselves to do it. So you can find the link to sign yourself up for this free class. It's it's people have found it really powerful. Um, they've called it life-changing and all sorts of um very kind things. Breathtaking, life-changing, amazing and so powerful. And it includes an inner child healing, which I which I include in all of my healing sessions. So if you feel like maybe there's a chance that some of your old childhood wounds are coming up in response to you doing your thing in the world, grow doing your business, getting visible, um, and taking action in the world and doing the thing that the world needs. You know, the world needs you to be you and offer your skills. Um, but it can feel edgy. I know it can. Um, because I've been through it myself and I help people through it all the time. So if we heal the wounds from our childhood, it can feel a lot less intimidating and actually can start to feel fun and easy and in flow just to get visible and show up in the world. So, link to that is in the show notes. You can find the link to come to my workshop on the 7th of May. It's 90 minutes long with a QA afterwards. It includes a guided childhood healing, um, a guided hypnosis healing as well, called Upgrade the Child. And I'd love for you to join me there. Until next time, sending you a big hug and loads of appreciation. Keep going, keep doing what you're doing, keep spreading the love in the world because the world needs us to be the most amazing versions of ourselves that we can possibly be right now. More than ever, perhaps. All right, until next time. Bye for now.