✨ True Wealth with Betty ✨

The Wild Wings of Hope: Creativity & Connection in Fractured Times w/Ed Harrison

• Season 3 • Episode 4

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In this episode, join Betty in conversation with designer and wildlife artist Ed Harrison to explore how barn swallows, grief, and simple craft can rebuild connection. Ed tells how his personal story inspired his latest work; a community project that blends papercraft, folklore, and conservation to spark grounded hope in local communities. 

• defining true wealth as joy, connection, and presence
• Ed’s lockdown return to nature and time with his dad
• the swallows’ arrival the day of the memorial
• translating flight into layered papercraft swallows
• workshops for children, dementia-friendly groups, and carers
• storytelling, folklore, drumming, and migration journeys
• museum launch with partner conservation charities
• hope as practiced resilience, not prescription
• messages of hope and messages of loss
• swifts, red admirals, and adapting species
• building village through hands-on making
• crowdfunder for Wild Wings of Hope kits and workshops

Please remember to like and share and subscribe to the podcast and get in touch if you're enjoying it. If you've got any ideas for future guests who you think might be a good fit, please do let me know. (betty@bettycottambertels.com)

Donate to the Wild Wings of Hope Crowdfunder Appeal

Find Ed here: https://edharrison.co.uk/

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SPEAKER_01:

If there's one thing that can get us through any time of hardship, and I truly believe believe any time of hardship, I'm not saying this will solve our problems, but I'm saying that if we have connection, it will mean that we can navigate the darkest of times. Um, and I think in relation to nature, we can get in touch with nature, you know, all of the things that we're doing to the natural world, and yet she's still there, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

Incredible.

SPEAKER_01:

Um just yeah, as a grounding presence, um creativity, you know. I I feel we need creative creative solutions to get us out of this this mess, but also creativity to get us through it. I think I can't remember who said the quote, but the question is will there be singing in the dark times? And yes, there will be singing about the dark times. I think that is important.

SPEAKER_03:

Hello and welcome to the True Wealth Podcast, where we ask the question: what does it mean to be truly wealthy in this digital age of distraction and disconnection? I'm your host Betty Cotton Bertles, blues singer, Buddhist, mum of two, and former global shoestring adventurer, turned hypnotherapist and mindset coach. I believe that by healing our past and changing our beliefs, we may achieve not only the external successes, the house, the relationship, the money, the impact, but also internal success, the ability to actually enjoy our lives, because it's the joy and happiness that makes it all worthwhile. Join me as I invite friends, colleagues, and esteemed teachers to discuss means of enhancing enjoyment in our lives, following our inspiration as individuals to create whatever it is that lights us up so that we might radiate that energy out into the world via our businesses or our day-to-day lives with the intention that all beings may benefit. I believe that this is where true wealth lies. Welcome to the show. I am delighted to share with you um my conversation with Ed Harrison, which we had back in November actually, and it's taken me a while to come around to editing it. So releasing now at the end of January 2026. Happy New Year to you all. Um, so this conversation was so lovely. I adore Ed. Um, we met at Summer Camp, which I've rabbited on to you all. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you'll have heard me talk about that place quite a lot. I saw Ed give his talk um at Summer Camp last year, 25, and we connected sitting in the sauna overlooking the lake, and I just loved him immediately. And I went to his paper cut workshop and it was, I think it was my highlight of the whole event. So who is Ed? He is a designer, an illustrator, and a wildlife artist, incredibly talented man, and just such fun to spend some time with him and sit with him. Uh, he says on his website that he is on a mission to protect biodiversity on this magical blue marble we call home. Um, he's got some pretty big names in the uh wildlife world that he's worked with, collaborating with clients such as WWF, RSPB, the Soil Association, and the Wildlife Trusts. And really, his graphics are beautiful, really um, yeah, really lovely. Check him out, edharrison.co.uk. But really, the the what we talked about, the the talk he gave at Summer Camp, and then what we talk about in today's episode is um how he became inspired by the barn swallows, and how the story of the barn swallows at his home near Swansea um tied into his own personal story of losing his dad, and then this magical kind of synchronicity around how the barn swallows arrived on the day of his um memorial for for his dad, they they came back to their nests, and it so he has a very special relationship with the barn swallows, and he used he talks to us about how he used creativity to process that loss and the grief, um, making these incredibly um essentialized, I think is the word, because his his paper cuts that he makes, he's an incredible artist, is Ed. Um, and the workshop that we did at Summer Camp was making these barn swallows, and he has this project called Wild Wings of Hope, which is a very, very inspiring project. He's got a crowdfunder that you can donate to if you go to crowdfunder.co.uk forward slash p forward slash wild wings of hope, and on that site it explains a little bit about the project. Um he calls it a well through papercraft and storytelling workshops, the intention of this project is to connect people to nature and to inspire hope for the future. And really, you know, at this time, hope feels almost like yeah, I mean, I don't know, how does it feel to you? How what's your relationship like with hope? It was very interesting when when I did this workshop and we we made the Barn Swallows um at Summer Camp, and then afterwards everybody talked about what hope means for them and shared something about on the topic of hope, and it was so moving. I I loved it so much to be part of this workshop and to make these gorgeous barn swallows um from his papercraft kind of kit that he'd prepared. Um and we now have these um swallows hanging in our living room, and they really are. I I mean, I don't know about you, but if you have swallows that come to if you if you've ever seen them or they've come because they come every year and then they migrate to Africa and then they come back to the UK, and they they always come back to the same place and they mate for life, and that they're it's just a I think most people who've who've kind of had a relationship with swallows or had ri swallows returning to their land have a very strong connection to them. They're really lovely birds, and it does kind of give you a lift when they come back for the summer. So the Wild Wings of Hope project is the intention is to give Ed gives these workshops helping people to connect with nature and with each other, um, using their hands. Gosh, we don't really do enough of this, do we anymore? Most of us, but um yeah, it was my favorite part of summer camp and my favourite workshop, I would say, just to be sitting together and crafting and chatting and talking about hope and um and about the swallows. And so, yeah, if you want to find out more about this particular crowdfunder, you can find the link in the show notes, and you can also find more about Ed by going to edharrison.co.uk. Um, and here's you know, Ed also he does paper cut, he does illustration, he does brand identity, infographics, loads of stuff, icon designs, picture books. So you can find out all of that, all of this stuff on his website, edharrison.co.uk. Um, without further ado, I've been rabbiting on. So uh let's let me shut up and let's listen to Ed and you can hear more about his amazing and very inspiring story. Hello and welcome to the podcast Ed.

SPEAKER_01:

Hello Betty, it is so nice to see your face again.

SPEAKER_03:

It's so nice to see you again. Now, as you've just heard in the intro, people listening, um Ed and I met it in we're recording this November 2025. So we met a couple of months back at Summer Camp, the Happy Startup School Summer Camp, which is the annual hippie camp out amazing inspiration fest that really everybody should go to. Um tell me, Ed, what was it like? Was that your first summer camp?

SPEAKER_01:

That was my first summer camp, and it was um yeah, it was for me really rejuvenating. I went there actually feeling a bit burnt out and didn't really know what to expect, but I definitely knew there was a lake for wild swimming and a sauna and a hot tub and some really inspirational workshops and talks. So I kind of knew that it wasn't going to be your conventional conference, even though it's obviously catered for startups and businesses, and I definitely left feeling nourished, um, both mentally and physically from the lake and the sauna, but also from the people that I met like you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and we I think we actually first spoke in the sauna before that happened.

SPEAKER_01:

I had a lot of a lot of nice conversations in the sauna.

SPEAKER_03:

I love that sauna, just with a window overlooking the lake. It was I mean, it was very special. Now, Ed is you are um in a very busy time of life. Tell us what's going on, Ed.

SPEAKER_01:

A few things. Um, the most uh immediate thing that's coming up is the birth of our little child, our first baby. It's a girl, um, two dates on Saturday. So um, yeah, that is people keep reminding me it's gonna be life-changing.

SPEAKER_03:

So hard to so hard to imagine what that's gonna be feel like, but yeah, I won't I won't add my voice to the to the fray. Yeah, no, how are you feeling about becoming a father?

SPEAKER_01:

Mixed emotions, um definitely excited, definitely nervous. Um and yeah, I think it's probably something I'm trying not to overthink because it's probably safe to say that no words can so I lost my dad, and I feel like I've delved into quite a lot of spiritual teaching since losing him, like quite a lot of Buddhism, and one thing I read, and this was before we decided to have a child, was that two of the biggest kind of like and without sounding you know, you mentioned the hippie start up summer camp, but without sounding overly hippie, like I read somewhere about some of like the two biggest spiritual gateways in life can be when you lose someone close to you and also when you bring a child into the world, and that really stuck with me. So I do feel that when I lost my dad, that was quite a big life-changing event that caused an internal shift in my yeah, everything really, um, which has fed into the work that I'm doing now. Yeah, and I can imagine um the same will be bringing a child into the world. Um, so I've held that in the back of my mind ever since reading that. Um, and like I said, I read that before we decided to, you know, start trying for a child. So that is probably the reason why I'm trying not to put too much by way of um what to expect. Although I am expecting it to be stressful at times. I am expect it to be absolutely knackered, but I think people say it's all worth it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um yeah, I'd definitely say it's worth it. Yeah, it's gonna be yeah, you can't, like I was saying to you just before we hit record, I you just can't really you can prepare. There's a lot you can do to prepare, and then you also, there's things obviously that you can never prepare for when you're just like learning on the job. Anyway, that's my experience of becoming a parent. Um, I haven't got you for long today, Ed, because you've got to rush off to the museum and you're a busy, busy man. So let's um you mentioned there your the loss of your dad, which you when you gave your wonderful, very moving talk at summer camp. This uh this event, this of you know, this loss featured in there and it was a turning point really. I mean it it was it inspired a body of work, didn't it? Do you want to tell us about that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, thank you for the kind words, Betty. Um, yeah, it was so nice to have you there as well. You were you were beaming throughout, which helped ease my nerves, even though I'd known you for like 24 hours, um, which was nice because we'd already had a little conversation about barn swallows um that previous day. So, yeah, to try and summarise it, um, in lockdown, um me and my partner moved back home to my family home in South Wales, um, escaped our city flat where we had no garden. And I think like many other people around that time, it was kind of a collective. It definitely felt like a collective, well, tale of two halves. There was the loss, the fear, the unknowns, the deaths. Um, but they also felt like there was quite a big shift in people re-evaluating what matters, and that happened for me. Um, I took to the soil with my dad, my gardener mentor, and began planting vegetables. And um yeah, I guess it was kind of felt like stepping a bit off the treadmill. Treadmill? Treadmill, treadmill somewhat, and I'm sure lots of people can kind of relate to that, even though my work was grounded in like wildlife conservation, it you know, you can still find yourself rushing through life, and um I felt for the first time it felt like having a big breath out, um and being able to like really connect to the nature, um, like really, really grateful to have a beautiful family home on the outskirts of Swansea, um, where there was raised beds for growing vegetables and beautiful biodiversity. So having the time and space for that really, really felt like a privilege, an absolute privilege, you know, given the backdrop of everything that was happening. Um so that was probably the beginning of the journey. Um and then I remained at my home for some time because our family were going through some challenges that led up to the passing of my dad. And um, yeah, that was kind of like what we said earlier is an event that's difficult to put into words and a huge loss and internal shift. Um and from a creative perspective, I've I've always used my work as a way of expressing myself as an artist, and I use this opportunity to kind of um delve into my illustration work of um drawing barn swallows, which are a species that would return to our home every autumn, um, sorry, every summer, and leave for Africa every autumn, ever since we were young kids. My dad would tell us stories of how these birds would migrate in flocks for thousands of miles every year and arrive to exactly the same home year after year, rebuilding or building new nests out of mud. And it's quite unbelievable, really. Like in more recent years, I've discovered that in folklore, not even in folklore, naturalists once believed that they would hibernate beneath the mud um instead of migrate. And even though that might sound a little bit ridiculous now, at that time, these were some of the top naturalists who thought that was more plausible that they would hibernate beneath the ground than travel thousands of miles to Africa. Um, so you know, growing up with those stories was just incredible. So there was always a connection with dad and the barn swallows. He was always the first to spot them without fail. And it was always the sign of the beginning of spring, um watching the barn swallows swoop in and out. So um the year after we lost my dad, we scattered his ashes in the garden, and each of us chose a spot of personal significance in the garden, and I chose the raised beds where he taught me to plant vegetables from seed during lockdown. And um we came together as a family um for this little ritual from different parts of the country with my brothers and my mum. And whilst we were waiting out on the porch having a cup of tea, the very first. Barn swallows arrived from Africa.

SPEAKER_03:

And um just after you just after you'd spread the ashes?

SPEAKER_01:

Just before.

SPEAKER_03:

Just before, sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm. On that day, yeah. Gosh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That is amazing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03:

Did you did you predict? Did you were you aware that that was imminent?

SPEAKER_01:

So, in all honesty, I'd been there for the winter with my mum. And we get bats as well, pippers job bats. So when I first saw it, because they've got such a darting, swift darting movement, my initial thought was, oh, it's a bat.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because I hadn't seen the swallows since, you know, in a long time. So I was like, oh, it's a bat in the daytime. Because you occasionally see them. And I was like, oh my god, no, it's the the first Barn Swallow.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So But you'd already decided that was the day you were doing the ashes.

SPEAKER_01:

You didn't do it because brothers coming back from London from Glasgow.

SPEAKER_03:

So total, I want to say coincidence, but then also maybe synchronicity. Oh, how beautiful.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So that was um really special moment. So I it was actually me and my brothers waiting, and then I um went and got my mum and brought brought her to the front porch and just said, like, we've got like we've got something for you, and showed her the showed her the barn swallows flying around, and um she just cried and it was really wonderful. Um and that inspired a new illustration series of barn swallows, um which evolved into paper cuts. I I like to create um tactile three-dimensional pieces. Um initially I did a series of um moths and butterflies and insects, um, and this evolved into delving into paper cuts of barn swallows. And the idea being that um initially the barn swallows were like kind of like a mobile that I'd made to try and capture the dynamic movements of the barn swallows, but then with the idea that these could be paper cut kits that other people could craft themselves, um you know, perfect for school kids, but also for people with maybe limited access to the natural world. So um pe people in palliative care or people living with dementia, or um yeah, and I guess one one nice thing is when delving into the folklore, barn swallows are a symbol of good luck and bring good luck to a household when they nest near a house or the outbuilding. So there's something nice in being able to craft something tactile, and that being a symbol of good luck for a person who's made it and their family to take home, um, which is something we did in summer camp. That was the first ever workshop and getting feedback from people.

SPEAKER_03:

That was your first one. That was the first time you'd done paper cuts with a group.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd done um some butterflies with but in a workshop with butterfly conservation. Right before.

SPEAKER_03:

And what one workshop.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd done one workshop, yeah. Yeah. And that was yeah, that was before I'd gone on like several retreats, and um that was kind of the start of something, and that was the beginning of like there's something in this, the tactile nature of it.

SPEAKER_03:

Um and bringing it to other people to to get them to do that. What's that like, Ed, when you're I mean, uh presumably it working as an artist is quite an insular thing. You know, you're doing your work. I don't know if that's true, and you can answer that in a moment if it was or if it wasn't. But then what what's it? I'm curious about the process of then bringing your very internal process to a group. How was that or how is that?

SPEAKER_01:

That's a lovely question. And I think there's something about the shift being something from that's kind of the stereotypical artist that's creating their work in their studio and then the participatory element the collective. Um and I don't know if this is true, but there's probably various factors that contribute to this shift, and I think some of it, in all honesty, is probably as we grow up, I think that's probably why we see people become teachers. You know, I think there's that saying that I think is so so wrong where people say those that can't do teach, um which I think is the symptom of a hyper-individualized society. Um I think teaching is a really wonderful, there's probably not much greater thing that you can do is give your time and energy to you know parting on knowledge to other people.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and I guess you know, I'm one of four boys and we're all um designers.

SPEAKER_03:

All of you are designers, gosh.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, creative. One my eldest brother's a furniture maker.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um my b my other older brother between us is a digital designer.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm a bit of everything, illustrator, designer, artist, and my younger brother's a printmaker.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So there's something, and I guess the reason I'm saying that is I feel like there's something I believe about craft and making with your hands that um is healing.

SPEAKER_04:

I think.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Especially when you're working with something that's tactile. Yeah. So also looking at nature and the barn swallows, they're very communal beings. They they live together, they feed together, they migrate together, they learn to fly together. Um and I think there's some I think it's getting very apparent that these days something's being lost with communities. I feel like a kind of a reflection of what's happening with biodiversity, where things are becoming fractured and isolated and species are being lost and communities are being lost. Um and I've been thinking that back that a lot with like the upcoming birth of our child, where that age-old phrase it takes a village to raise a child. I think that must have been true. Um, I don't think we're really set up to be um raising kids with the external pressures that we have of rent and bills and jobs and um, you know, things like this technology are wonderful because we can connect and reconnect after the summer camp. And also it means that people are becoming more individualized. So the reason I'm saying this is because there was a need for me to, I feel like, use craft as a way of bringing people together, and that's one of the things I'm hoping to do through this project, taking inspiration from the Barn Swallows.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Okay, I'm aware of the time because we've got 15 minutes left together already, and I feel like we could talk for hours, Ed. So please come back and we can go, we can go into, you know, we can talk more. But um, for now, in the next 15 minutes, what would be really amazing is if you could um tell us, I mean, I really would encourage people to check your work out. It's it's very beautiful, and um the what I think strikes me, you know, so Ed mentioned just then um that I was taking part in his paper cut workshop, which was the first one of the swallows, and it was beautiful, and it was from my side, I'll just maybe say how it was for me being part of that. Um coming to summer camp is amazing because there's all these people doing these very inspiring things, and a lot of it's business focused, and I've not done something like Ed's workshop that in that environment before, and I think I was just so drawn to it for that reason. I didn't want, you know, like when you're in a people-y environment like that for a few days at a time, there's something really nice about doing something with your hands and not maybe the focus not being on talking and communicating necessarily, but on creating something, and that it was it was lovely. He had these um beautifully cut on lovely, you know, good quality. I love a bit of paper, I mean good strong paper. Is it card or paper? I don't know. Um card. Card, thank you. Let's see, let's get it right. And they're and we created these amazing swallows, and they're so um essentialized. Um something, I mean, you can see I they're simple, but the simplicity is what makes them so exquisitely beautiful, I think, Ed. And I I mean the way that you managed that workshop, it was like, I mean, you can say more about exactly what was happening, but from my perspective, what we what we were doing is like you had the the pieces already cut of card in three colours, wasn't it? It's like a the navy deep blue of the the swallow and then white and then the kind of orangey red, and um and then we were just stacking them and sticking them together so that they created they were slightly 3D and then they were to designed to be hung, and I've got two of them actually downstairs in the living room, and my partner just said yesterday uh how much joy they bring him every time he sees them, because I was suggesting because I just as I told you before we hit record, my daughter's class was renamed this year in Welsh as Dospa Dospa. Sorry, Welsh speakers, I'm gonna butcher this. Um, Gwenol, which means swallow class, and I just put two and two together, and then I said, Oh, you know, maybe you should take one of the swallows into school. And my partner Rob said, Oh no, no, no, I'd miss it too much. Like they bring him too much joy. So um, anyway, blah blah blah. Well, we need to stay focused, Ed. So um tell us about what came of this. Um, we've we've heard about the workshop a little bit, but really what I think would be great now is if you could tell us about the project that came out of this um inspiration with the swallows and with the loss of your dad, and where it's what's next, where are you going?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that was a lovely summary, and to hear that you know, because I I've been running these workshops now since we met, since that first workshop, and I haven't actually that's the first time I've heard anyone reflect on how um it is literally bringing joy into their home. That's that means a lot. So thank you for sharing that. Um and I I didn't really know how it was gonna go, in all honesty, because it was because these workshops are designed for people, like I've been doing workshops um with people, young children and people living with dementia in their families. So I was worried that it would be too simple. Um and it felt like it was actually just right. Um, so yeah, that was the kind of pilot, and that was shortly before um that was actually a week before I did my first workshop with a dementia-friendly group. Um, and every time I learned something new, um every time there's a new way of doing things, workshop facilitation is an art. And um maybe you didn't realize, but I was a little bit overwhelmed in that first workshop. I kind of haven't done a community workshop as big as that one since. Um, but I've done a public-facing one. So the launch of our project, Wild Wings of Hope, the initial vision was that the paper craft was part of the project. And another big area that I really wanted to bring into this project was I've touched upon folklore and stories in this interview, but that felt like it was missing in the crafted element. So um I've collaborated with two storytellers who are based in Scotland, one with Celtic roots and the other with African roots from Ghana. And the idea is that in our collaborative workshops, I will facilitate the craft side of things. And then together they will follow the craft activity by um sharing a dynamic story that they've created together that is a story of the barn swallowers migrating from Scotland to Africa and back, and it talks of the places they go to, the challenges they face from the weather, from the human impacts to the Sahara Desert. Um, and they integrate folklore and also Chief Giftamu integrates drumming. Um, he gives participants hand drums to participate in. So um, whilst he's doing that, Kara Silversmith, the storyteller, is using a mobile with the crafted barn swallows in the story as well. So using these paper cuts as props. So it's trying to go back to again something that's I think missing in our communities, it's trying to go back to the way things, stories were told and retold and traditional storytelling. And I think these stories and folklore were kind of goes back to a time where we were a bit more collectively in touch with nature.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And even like since losing my dad and having this symbolism of Barneswallows, I think back then there was a lot of symbolism around birds and loved ones who'd passed. I think because there was a lot of hardship and death at the time. So again, just like I've been trying to do with my artwork, it's people trying to make sense of the world through these folklore stories. So it's been an absolute joy to collaborate with them in these workshops. And we actually launched the project publicly in October um about a month ago in the National Museum of Scotland, and that was for um October in here in Edinburgh. October is well, here in Scotland, it's the International Storytelling Festival, and it's also Black History Month. So wow. We we launched it over three days in the Grand Gallery, and how did it go? It went really well. It went really well. I did a giant installation of hundreds of barn swallows on these steel hoops in the Grand Gallery, which was a little bit stressful. Um, but it it worked out, and we had RSPB there as a partner charity. We had butterfly conservation as a partner charity, so they were enabling people to learn about the species and take action.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

The storytellers were doing their drumming circles and storytelling sessions, and then um the museum team and me were helping people craft not just barn swallows but also swifts and orange-tipped butterflies. So trying to kind of celebrate um these bird species that migrate to and from Africa, and also the the orange-tipped butterfly is a species that is adapting to climate change. So they're actually numbers are actually increasing here in Scotland. Um and the next species I'm focusing on, which I can actually show you on camera, please do, is um the Red Admiral.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01:

So um these are probably a bit too intricate for workshops. These are going up in um an exhibition that I'm gonna fill a cabinet with these, and um, the idea being that these actually migrate to Africa as well.

unknown:

Do they?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, stop it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. Butterflies migrate to Africa from from Britain. How on earth do they do that?

SPEAKER_01:

I I don't have the answer to that. But I think there's some magic. Yeah, and I think that is the essence of this project is hope.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, I think I wanted you to come to hope. Talk to me about hope, Ed.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, okay, well.

SPEAKER_03:

It's called the Wild Wings of Hope.

SPEAKER_01:

It's called Wild Wings of Hope, and this is the essence of the project. I feel like there's something when you actually think about a species migrating to Africa and the fact that they come back year after yeah in some places, obviously, you know, this is nature and this is a difficult time for species and biodiversity, but it shows a resilience of nature, and I think there's something in the resilience of migration that I feel uh like encompasses hope it's intergenerational, it's resilience, it's um something science can't even doesn't even fully understand yet, and I'm okay with that. I think that's good. It's okay for us to not have everything figured out. So hopefully I'm also learning, especially working with you know I had I I ran a dementia group dementia-friendly workshop last week, and it does it is a humbling experience because it's a really that's a really really really challenging thing to live with, not just for the people who are living with it, but their family members as well. So when we you know if I think about this context or I think about the atrocities that are happening across the world, you know, the genocides, the extinction of species, the bite, the habitat loss, the indigenous peoples being displaced, ev everything. It does I think you have to be careful, and I don't think hope can be prescribed. Um and yet We need it. We need to have hope for the future. And I think I mentioned in our my talk in summer camp, I was trying to finish, you know, I was wondering how to finish the talk. I I I don't think you can give a talk on hope without mentioning the polycrisis that we're living through at the moment. Um so this comes back to one underlying thread that's been running throughout the project that we've been talking about, and I think the underlying thread is connection, that is connection to nature, and that is connection to creativity, and that is connection to one another, to community. And I think if there's one thing that can get us through any time of hardship, and I truly believe believe any time of hardship, I'm not saying this will solve our problems, but I'm saying that if we have connection, it will mean that we can navigate the darkest of times. Um and I think in relation to nature, we can get in touch with nature, you know, all of the things that we're doing to the natural world, and yet she's still there, you know. Um just yeah, as a grounding presence, um creativity, you know. I I feel we need creative creative solutions to get us out of this this mess, but also creativity to get us through it. I think I can't remember who said the quote, but the question is will there be singing in the dark times? And yes, they will be singing about the dark times. I think that is important. And the last point, connection to one another, is the human connection. Uh and we feel this when we lose a loved one, or we feel this when we get in touch with what's being lost in the natural world, and we felt it together in summer camp, you know, going full circle. There was something about leaving that event where we felt nourished, and it's because of that human connection where we'd spent a few days off our phones, yeah, in nature, creativity and singing and craft and just um talking with one another and sharing a space in nature with one another. And I think you know again, just a privilege to be able to do that. And I feel like if this project can bring just a little bit of that connection um to nature, to creativity and to other people, to one another coming together in a space to craft paper craft creations and stories, then you know, I feel very grateful to be able to do this and to have been able to share this project with you.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh Ed, I'm aware. I'm so sorry for everyone listening because Ed has to rush off to the museum now. Um, and I have to let him go. But can I just ask very quickly, Ed? I'd love to just this is gonna have to be a short answer so you get there on time. But what what's your hope for the future? Hmm, big question. It's a short amount of time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So so I've been running these workshops and a new edition I've been doing is getting people to write messages of hope. Um, and the next thing I'm gonna do is I think we can't write that message of hope without a message of loss. Um wow. I think there's a really beautiful Nick Cave quote after he lost his son. Yes. And he writes about grief, and he says, Um, I'm gonna butcher the quote, but it's something along the lines of if we love we grieve. That's the deal, that's the pact. Grief and love are intertwined, and I feel like things are unfolding in this project in many ways that are quite remarkable, just like the fact that you said your daughter's classes being named after Barnswallow and Welsh. I'm from Wales and my Welsh is not good in South Wales, so I'm gonna apologize. But I find that quite amazing, and we've been focusing on barn swallows and swifts in this project, and for me, barn swallows were a symbol of hope when I was living at home in Wales, and I left Wales and the barn swallows to come up to Edinburgh with my partner who's studying art psychotherapy, and we don't see barn swallows out the window, but we see Swifts. Edinburgh is a Swift city, and they've been able to continue and adapt to the tenement rooftop buildings, and they migrate here year after year. And my new symbol of hope is the Swift, a migratory bird from Africa, and a new strand of this project is crafting Swifts with young children, the Fledglings project. And there's nothing more hopeful to me than running a craft workshop with these kids who they cut out and they colour in their Swifts. And whilst they're doing the storytelling sessions with the storytellers, I'll assemble their Swifts into a mobile, and at the end we'll come together and I'll just remind them that they've been making music together and they've been crafting a flock of birds together. And this is something that these birds do, they migrate to Africa for thousands of thousands of miles every year, and they return. And so for me, the thing that gives me hope is those moments in those workshops where I'm sharing those spaces with these young people or these old people or these people our age, and they're connecting, and um I think it's easy to lose sight of how much good is happening in this world because of social media and technology and the media, and um I try and hold on to those moments of human connection and nature connection. That's what gives me hope.

SPEAKER_03:

Beautiful. Ed, I'm gonna let you go. It's been such a pleasure to have you on, even though it was so short and and you know, so much more I want to ask you about, but you have to come back another time. Good luck with the baby. I hope the birth all goes beautifully from all from myself and all the listeners who are listening to this. Um, probably they're listening, and you've probably you may have already had the baby by now. So wow, isn't that a beautiful thought?

SPEAKER_01:

That is a wonderful thought.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, so wishing you very well with the exhibition and your beautiful early days as a little family. Um, and please come back another time when you're settled in.

SPEAKER_01:

I'd love to. I'll no doubt be a little bit more sleep deprived, but I'll try my best.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, let yeah. What down the down the road when it when it's the right time, it'll be lovely to have you back. Uh Ed, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for being a guest. And um I'll give all the details of where people can find you in the show notes. Um, what is there anywhere that you'd like to direct people to to check you out briefly? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and I forgot to mention this. We've got a we've got a Kickstarter, well, a crowdfunder. Um, so if you and your partner or any of the listeners would like to get a Barn Swallow kit, they are available for a couple of weeks left until the crowdfunder finishes. I'm really happy to say we've actually hit the goal of 3000. Okay, um, I'm going to add a stretch goal soon so that we can run more workshops um of this kind with people in palliative care.

SPEAKER_03:

Where can people find that, Ed?

SPEAKER_01:

People can find that on Crowdfunder. It's Wild Wings of Hope. You can also find it on the Wild Wings of Hope homepage.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

It's Wild of Wings.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, go on.

SPEAKER_01:

WildwingsofHope.com.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01:

And there's uh a button that says support our crowdfunder.

SPEAKER_03:

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, if you just Google Wild Wings of Hope, there's not many other things that come up. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Beautiful. Thanks so much, Ed. I'm gonna let you go. Um, come back another time. All the very best. Thanks so much for being um a guest.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for inviting me and for believing in the project from the beginning.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, it's such a pleasure. Okay, but thanks so much for listening to this episode of the True Worlds podcast with Ed. I really hope you enjoyed our conversation. I certainly did. I I think he's fab, and um yeah, all the very best to you, uh, very best wishes and luck. I know that Ed has now had his daughter, whose name is Robin. Um, he sent out a little update. So I think she came along in December. Yeah, Robin Kim. Um, Kim named after Ed's father. So welcome, little Robin. Sharing she shares a middle name with me. My middle name is also Kim. I'm just looking out the window and I'm seeing a red kite. Oh, beautiful. I always think that's a good omen. So welcome to the world, Robin Kim. Congratulations to Ed Um and Julia on the arrival of Little Robin Kim, and thank you so much to everybody listening. Please remember to like and share and subscribe to the podcast and get in touch if you're enjoying it. I always love hearing from you, and if you've got any ideas for future guests who you think might be a good fit, please do let me know. All the very best, and I will see you next time. Bye for now.