✨ True Wealth with Betty ✨

On Pilgrimage, Happiness & Making the case for Idealism with Satish Kumar

• Betty Cottam Bertels • Season 3 • Episode 12

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Satish Kumar makes a compelling case for idealism in a world dominated by realists who have failed to solve our most pressing problems, sharing wisdom from his remarkable life journey from monk to peace activist.

• Traveling 8,000 miles on foot without money as a peace pilgrimage across 15 countries
• True peace requires work at three levels: personal peace, social peace, and ecological peace
• Living as a pilgrim means accepting the world as it is and participating to create transformation
• Diversity is nature's way - we must celebrate differences rather than seek uniformity
• Education should balance head (intellect), heart (courage), hands (creativity), and home (rootedness)
• Modern society has become too individualistic, forgetting that we exist in relationship
• Moving from "ego" to "eco" - from self-centeredness to recognizing our interconnectedness
• Acting from love rather than fear or anger sustains activism without burnout
• Offering service without expectation of results prevents disappointment
• The power of sharing tea as a way to listen and resolve conflicts through conversation

Join the Happy Startup School's summer camp in Sussex this September to meet Satish Kumar in person and experience his inspiring workshops. 

Check out Satish's magazine Resurgence & Ecologist for more of his writings on ecology, peace, and sustainable living.


From Betty: Being in business means being visible. Being ethical in business means not using dodgy tactics, of course, but also being authentic in how we present ourselves ~~

The trouble is… Many of us carry wounds around being seen, accepted, and celebrated as the individual we are.

Left untended, these wounds divide our will, i.e. we end up with conflicted desires:

Part of us wants to be visible to grow our businesses, but another part of us is absolutely dead set on staying well and truly within the shadows… Becuase that's where it's SAFE.

…whether that means literally hiding under the duvet (I've been there 🥸),

...mega procrastination & self sabotage

…or pretending to be someone we are not, so as not to stand out (I've also been there 🤫).

The push & pull can be utterly EXHAUSTING.

But the good news is, it's relatively quick & easy to fix, once you access the level of the subconscious mind, using a modality such as hypnosis.

Come to my free 90 min workshop on 4th June 2025 and I'll teach you how you can set yourself free from past hurts, and leap confidently in the direction of your dreams.


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Speaker 1:

So realists had their chance and they are ruling the world, and world is not a happy place. So please give an idealist a chance and let idealism prevail. And time has come for idealists and realists had their chance and they have not showed anything wonderful. They have not showed any solutions to the problems of the world. So give idealists a chance and maybe and I know all the great people who inspire me Mahatma Gandhi was an idealist, mathisar King was an idealist, mother Teresa was an idealist, dalai Lama was an idealist, the Buddha was an idealist.

Speaker 1:

These are the people who are the salt of the earth. They sustain our vision, our values, inspiration and our ideals. Who are the salt of the earth, they sustain our vision, our values, inspiration and our ideals and they make us happy. When we read Buddha and Jesus Christ and Mahatma Gandhi and Marshall King and Mother Teresa and the people of Bethlehem and Lama and Dalai Lama, then we feel much more joyful, whereas I mean you can have Putin and Biden more joyful, whereas I mean you can have Putin and Biden and Modi and Stammer and all those people. There's no inspiration and they are all kind of. So I think idealists have a much more message and a much more kind of food for thought and food for soul and love and friendship and and kindness and generosity, and that's what makes you happy.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the True Wealth Podcast, where we ask the question what does it mean to be truly wealthy in this digital age of distraction and disconnection? I'm your host, betty Cotton-Burtles. Blues singer, buddhist mum of two and former global shoestring adventurer. Turned hypnotherapist and mindset coach. Turned hypnotherapist and mindset coach. I believe that by healing our past and changing our beliefs, we may achieve not only the external successes the house, the relationship, the money, the impact but also internal success, the ability to actually enjoy our lives, because it's the joy and happiness that makes it all worthwhile. Join me as I invite friends, colleagues and esteemed teachers to discuss means of enhancing enjoyment in our lives, following our inspiration as individuals to create whatever it is that lights us up, so that we might radiate that energy out into the world via our businesses or our day-to-day lives, with the intention that all beings may benefit. I believe that this is where true wealth lies. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the show, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode.

Speaker 2:

Goodness me, today's guest is, as you heard there in the introduction, satish Kumar and honestly, as I was editing this conversation and highlighting different bits that you know to use there in the introduction as a highlight, I highlighted almost everything he said.

Speaker 2:

Never have I, you know, has a conversation provided so many soundbites of just pure, unadulterated inspiration. And what I love about Satish, I think you know I am an idealist. I hold my hands up and say, yes, I'm an idealist. And Satish is an idealist, you know, and I love that he speaks to, that he names it and you know he's been called an idealist in the past and I love his point that he makes in this about, well, look what the realists have done for us, you know, look where that's got us. The realists are in charge now and just look at the state of the world. So maybe it's time for the idealists. And so, oh goodness me, I I am sure that you will listen to this conversation and you'll feel inspired. I certainly did. I met Satish back at um, the Happy Startup School's annual summer camp, um, and it was a.

Speaker 2:

It was a full circle moment in a way for me, because back in my 20s I remember reading Satish's book no Destination and it stayed with me. Something about it stayed with me, whether it was the fact that he walked around the world, whether it was the fact that he did it without money, whether it was the fact that he had this very idealistic vision that he would deliver a packet of peace tea to world leaders. Something about it just felt cool and it stayed with me. And then it was a few years later, after that, that I cycled across the world. I cycled from Bristol in the United Kingdom, across Europe, across Turkey, across Iran, and I didn't cycle all the way. We um, myself and and Joel who was my companion, we ended up throwing our bikes onto trucks and onto trains and uh, but we cycled an awful lot of the way and then we had visa issues so we had to kind of hurry things along. But yeah, so much of Satish's story resonated for me, resonates still for me and I watching the video, if you, if you watch the video interview, you can find it on YouTube. Um, if you watch the video interview, you'll see as Satish is talking. I am just gushing, I mean just so delighted to be spending this time together. And you can see it in my face yeah, he's a very sweet, kind, loving and inspiring man.

Speaker 2:

And, honestly, the people after summer camp, after his talk at summer camp, after his workshop, I spoke to a lot of people after that event and I said what was the best thing for you? And almost everybody I think everybody said it was Satish Kumar. There's something about him. You can see the light in him, something about him. You can see the light in him sparkling and twinkling and he's so radiant and kind of cheeky almost, and so alive, so, um, in love with life, it seems, and that transmits something, um, something really quite beautiful. And so let's all be idealists. What's your idealism, what's your thing that you want to be an idealist about? That you could be, what's the thing, what is it for you?

Speaker 2:

And he's dedicated his life to helping people achieve peace. You know from walking around the world, as I mentioned, his peace pilgrimage. Then he went on to write many, many books about this topic and it became less, as he mentions in the conversation. It became less about, you know, stopping wars and it started to become more about helping people to find peace within themselves, because he realized that that's the first step. And then, after finding the peace within ourselves, then we have to find peace at a societal level and then we have to make peace with nature. So those are the, these are the three, the triad for our times. I think he calls it soil, society and soul, perhaps not in that order, I can't remember the order. Um, yeah, so let's find peace within ourselves. So many of us are at conflict in. We have these internal conflicts, and it's so interesting. I've been digging into this a lot recently, though, like with um, fascinated by the kinds of. I mean, this is the work I do, of course, with hypnotherapy. Um, well, I say of course, but you?

Speaker 2:

might not know who I am and what I do, but this is, this is my world that I'm absolutely dedicated to. I'm a hypnotherapist and, um, a mindset coach for entrepreneurs, helping people to overcome the limiting beliefs that they experience or the fear that they experience about bringing their work into the world, to humanity, to nature, as an offering, which is what Satish says at the end there, this kind of work, if we don't believe in ourselves as fundamentally decent people and so many of us are at war with ourselves, and so this is where, in my work, I do, um, something called parts therapy, where we, where we establish the bits that are at war with each other and we listen to them, and I love that. And Satish talks so much about the need to just sit down and listen to each other. At the end of this conversation he talks about, yeah, how, having a cup of tea. Just sit down, have a cup of tea and, like, hear the other person's story and stop stop trying to make everybody believe the same thing, but just listen. There's so many different versions of truth out there in the world. We all have a different truth, so we need to stop trying to homogenize that and start to lead with love, as he says. I adore everything he says. He just absolutely lights me up and I'm sure he's going to light you up too.

Speaker 2:

Um, yeah, what a sweet, wonderful man who's dedicated his life to really, as he says, and making an offering to humanity. And really, as he says, making an offering to humanity without any expectation that it's going to work. And that's the catch, isn't it? That's the really hard bit that trips so many of us up. We think, well, what's the point in trying, because it will never work. But I love that Satish is saying just do it anyway. Do it. Don't expect it to work, because it's the expectation that's going to cause you to burn out and just feel disappointed and stop eventually, but just keep going. He's 88 years old and he's still an activist, still working for peace.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so, without further ado, I present my conversation with the absolute legend that is Satish Kumar. And remember, just final comment, remember if you want to meet Satish in person, come along to the Happy startup school summer camp. It's in Sussex and it's in September, happens every year um 2025. This year, satish will be there and I'll be there giving a workshop. Satish will be inspiring everyone with his wonderful way and and his talk and his workshops, um, and it's an absolute ball. I'll put the links to that in the show notes. And also, yeah, check out Satish's magazine Resurgence, also linked in the show notes, and enjoy this conversation. Hello and welcome to satish satish kumar, hello, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

My pleasure, it's lovely, it's um such a delight to have you here.

Speaker 2:

Um, I feel very, very happy that you've agreed to to come.

Speaker 2:

I feel very honoured to have the chance to ask you some of these questions after meeting you, actually last year in September at Summer Camp in Sussex, where you gave a wonderfully inspiring talk and you touched the hearts of so many people. Everybody who was there was glowing after hearing you and feeling so inspired, and so, um, yes, and we had the, I had the opportunity to sit down with you and have, uh, during one lunch and and ask you some questions, and that's. I invited you to come and you were kind enough to agree. So, um, thank you once again, satish. So, um, I have some questions for you and very curious to hear a little bit about. I mean, your story is remarkable and it has inspired me certainly and this is what the topic I was telling you about how your book no Destination had inspired me as a 20-something-year-old to also undertake a similar, not quite as extreme, perhaps because you walked and I cycled, and you know how many miles was it that you walked there on that trip, satish.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, I walked from the grave of Mahatma Gandhi in New Delhi to the grave of John F Kennedy in Washington DC. Of course I went by boat from Southampton to New York, but otherwise I walked 8000 miles and it was through 15 countries and it took me two and a half years.

Speaker 2:

My daughters actually, who are nine sorry, almost nine eight and six. I was telling them about this conversation today and how it had inspired me previously and they said how long did it take him, mum? How long did it take him? So now I can go and tell, yes, two and a half years, thank you. And when you look back now, you were in your 20s Is that correct? When you did this, that's right.

Speaker 1:

I was 26 years old, yeah, and I walked with a companion who was a year older than me, and two of us walked together.

Speaker 2:

And for two and a half years you were walking and you didn't take any money with you on the trip. Is that right? That's right.

Speaker 1:

That's right. You know, my walk was for peace and I was going from Delhi to Moscow, paris, london and Washington. Delhi to Moscow, paris, london and Washington these were the four nuclear capitals at that time. Now, wars begin in fear and peace begins in trust. So if you have no money, that means you have to trust people, you have to trust yourself and that way you embody peace.

Speaker 1:

So the reason that I decided not to take any money with me is to show that I trust everybody. So when I was in Muslim countries, I said you are Muslims, I trust you. When I came to Christian countries, I said you are Muslims, I trust you. When I came to Christian countries, I said you are Christians, I trust you. If you are communist in Soviet Union, I trust you. If you are capitalist in America, I trust you. Whoever you are, trust does not discriminate against anyone. So that was the reason that I decided to walk with my friend without any money and amazing that for two and a half years I did not touch money and yet I survived. I was looked after by strangers, I was given food, I was given clothes, I was given shoes, I was given shelter, I was given everything. So that shows that trust is the greatest treasure and you can walk around the world in unknown countries, unknown places, unknown languages, day and age in the West.

Speaker 2:

I'm curious, satish, how it felt once because you attracted a lot of press on that trip and it was remarkable. A lot of people were inspired by you and I understand that you had interviews and the press were telling your story. And I'm curious how was that? When the dust settled and you finally got back to India, how did you feel after taking that on and what was next for you from there? Did you feel that same sense of trust about whatever was next in your life?

Speaker 1:

Did you feel that same sense of trust about whatever was next in your life? Yes, and to some extent. When I just completed my walk around the world, then working for peace became a kind of life mission for me. And so ever since I have been working for peace in one way or the other, I have been working for peace in one way or the other. But for me now, since that walk, peace has become a bit broader concept than just the absence of nuclear weapons or absence of war.

Speaker 1:

Peace is much more than absence of war. Peace is a way of life and therefore, first and foremost, you have to have peace within your heart, in your own life. You have to make peace with yourself. If you are not at peace within yourself, you can't make peace in the world. Then you have to make peace with everybody, irrespective of their nationality, their religion, their political beliefs, their economic systems, whatever you have. We have to live in peace with everybody. We cannot choose our neighbors and we cannot choose how other people live, what they believe, what kind of politics they have, what kind of economics they have, what kind of religion they have, everybody has to have their own beliefs. And therefore, having peace with everybody, irrespective of their religion, nationality, etc. Is the second peace.

Speaker 1:

And then the third peace became my part of life ever since that walk is making peace with nature. Because at the moment the way we treat nature is almost like being at war with nature the way we destroy our rainforest, the way we are polluting our oceans, the way we are contaminating our air with climate change and global warming and carbon emission and so on. So we have to make peace with nature, we have to live in harmony with nature, and nature is not simply a resource for the economy. Nature is a life itself.

Speaker 1:

So ever since I completed my walk and I went to India, working for peace at three levels personal peace and a social peace and ecological peace the three levels became important. So that's how my rest of my life has been working for peace at a more broader level than during the war. I was mainly talking about nuclear bombs in particular, but war preparation in general. But during that journey, meeting many wonderful people, as you said, I met Martin Luther King, I met Bertrand Russell, I met, I was in the Kremlin, I was in the White House, I met so many wonderful people and individuals, ordinary people in the villages and towns and so on, and so the idea of peace became much broader during that walk than how I started.

Speaker 2:

Hmm, and so the idea that, in order to achieve peace, we need to work at three levels, we have to this. This sounds to me like what you were speaking of at summer camp your, your trinity, your new trinity I think you called it of soil, soul and society. This sounds to me like the three, the three levels that you speak about achieving peace at, and I wonder at which point was there a moment when you realised the importance of the personal peace in order to achieve the other two? Would you say that the peace within ourselves has to come first?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I mean during the walk, I realized that peace is not just in the Kremlin or White House. Peace is where I am and with whom I'm talking to. And so during that walk, gradually I realized that making peace with myself and being at peace, If everybody was at peace within themselves, then they will accept other people as they are. We don't accept other people as they are because we are not accepting ourselves as we are. So in order to make peace with other people we have to accept ourselves and love ourselves and be at ease with ourselves.

Speaker 1:

So that realization came as I was walking in the mountains of Afghanistan, climbing up to 12,000 feet high, but in the deserts of Iran, and for 48 hours I walked without meeting any village or finding any food, and then in the snow-covered villages of Russia, in the winter, the Siberian snow. So all that journey was in a way kind of making peace with myself and making peace with nature and making peace with everybody. So it was a gradual realization of triple peace and that is, in a way, it's culminated in my neutrality of soil and soul society, Because soil is what we are made of. The word human comes from humus and humus means soil, so human beings are literally soil beings and therefore making peace with soil means making peace with nature. And making peace with soul is making peace with yourself and making peace with society. And making peace with soul is making with your. Peace with yourself and making peace with society is absolutely paramount.

Speaker 2:

So that kind of realization became very clear during my walk around the world that's beautiful, thank you, and and I actually personally I experienced a similar thing that I wasn't expecting, but just being with myself in that slow way on such a long journey, gradually I felt the same thing. So I understand a little bit about what you mean and it makes me think about the tradition of pilgrimage. I mean, that's what you called. There's something I called it Pilgrimage for Peace, yes, pilgrimage for Peace, and certain cultures very much encourage people to take a pilgrimage and I wonder if there's something to that, the reason that in certain spiritual traditions, undertaking a journey in that way, maybe that's something to do with it to enable us to find some kind of peace.

Speaker 1:

Yes, absolutely. I mean, in a way, life is a pilgrimage, and when I undertook this pilgrimage for peace from the grave of Mahatma Gandhi to the grave of John F Kennedy, through Moscow, Paris, london, washington, I realized the true meaning of being a pilgrim. There are two ways to live and two ways to travel. Either you can live and travel as a tourist or you can live and travel as a pilgrim. When you are living and traveling as a tourist, then you are expecting the world to be as you want it to be and so you are expecting. And if the world is not as you want it to be, then you are disappointed, and lots of tourists are disappointed because they don't find the world as they want it to be.

Speaker 1:

So if you don't want to be disappointed, then I would suggest and this is what I said to myself that I have to accept the world as it is. I cannot make the world, design the world to suit my idea of the right kind of world. A world is as it is and therefore we have to accept the world and live in the world and participate in that world, and through participation, transformation. Transformation does not happen by judging, preaching, condemning, criticizing. All those ways are ways of tourists, but whereas you accept and you love and you participate and you communicate and you have a kind of dialogue and you have a kind of communication and you listen, you speak and this way, with humility, you bring about transformation. So to be a pilgrim is to follow a path of transformation. So that's what I realized and therefore I changed my kind of consciousness, changed my mindset, from being a tourist in this world to be a pilgrim in this world.

Speaker 2:

That's very beautiful and very inspiring. Thank you, and I feel that it is very timely. Somehow, what you're saying is about we need to accept what we find in the world and, with everything that's going on currently, that is very difficult for a lot of people, and I wonder if you have any words of wisdom to share for people who maybe want to bring about changes these days.

Speaker 1:

Yes, only wisdom if you want to call it wisdom that I can share with you is to celebrate the diversity of life, diversity of truths, diversity of religions, diversity of political systems, diversity of religions, diversity of political systems, diversity of religions, diversity of languages. As soon as we accept and recognize the diversity, then of course, we cannot control the world. No one person can control. Even if you are president of the United States of America or president of Russia, you cannot control the world and therefore you have to have a humility and say that there will always be different kinds of leaders in the world. I mean, who is ruling China? I cannot control who is ruling Russia. I cannot control who will be elected in America. I cannot control if Trump will be elected or Kamala Harris will be elected. It's not in my control. So, if it's something not in my control, why I want to control and therefore accepting the diversity of life and through diversity see the unity of life.

Speaker 1:

Unity of life is that we are all humans and we all live on this planet and we are all seeking love and happiness, and that's a kind of unity of life. And but through that unity, no two human beings are same, no two trees are same. No two people speak in the same sort of accent. So nature favors diversity. Evolution favors diversity. So biodiversity, cultural diversity, evolution favors diversity. So biodiversity, cultural diversity, religious diversity, linguistic diversity, truth diversity, political diversity. The only wisdom that I can share with you is embrace diversity and let diversity and unity dance together. If we want to control the world and make it uniform, uniformity is the root cause of tensions and conflicts. So if you want to make the whole world drinking Coca-Cola and eating at McDonald's and wearing American jeans, living a life of uniformity and unless you do or be like us, you are no good that kind of idea has to go if you want peace in the world.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Yes, seems very important to accept and very difficult, I think, for so many people to accept, um, that other people have different ideas and that those ideas are valid even though they don't agree with them. So that is a a good practice for all of us.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah there's no one truth. Truth had many dimensions. There are many aspects of truth. Truth is a point of view. From your point of view you see something different than I see from my point of view. So point of view, truth is very big, has many dimensions. So for me, before truth I put love. Love comes first, then truth. Love comes first, then science. Love comes first, then politics Love comes first, then your religion, Whatever you have, that should be second, Love first. If you put love first, love unites and then truth does not unite. Truth has diversity. But if you have love in your heart, then you can accept everybody's truth in the way that they see it and therefore love can become a kind of uniting force, uniting power, and then we can live with differences of religions, nationalities, races, political philosophies and different kinds of truths. We can live with them if we have love in our heart. So peace and love comes first and then truth and science and politics come second yeah, this is very inspiring.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, and and I um I wonder if you have any thoughts on how humanity has gone so far wrong. In a sense, you know, how did we end up in this mess where we're at war with nature and at war with each other and at war with ourselves?

Speaker 1:

So you know, industrial revolution and production by mechanised systems creates uniformity, and so that's a kind of, you can say. Our education has conditioned our thinking that we should think like a machine. And machine does not think in diverse forms. Machine produces the same thing. Uniformity is the like a machine and machine does not think in diverse form. Machine produces the same thing. Uniformity is the nature of machine, the diversity is the nature of nature.

Speaker 1:

So when we move away from ecological and natural way of life and become more mechanized and more kind of technological and less natural, less ecological and more kind of technological and less natural, less ecological then we become obsessed with uniformity and then we want everybody to have the same same same. Therefore we have now even moved away from certain kind of different languages. We want to make English everywhere and we want many other things everywhere. So as you go in cities now you go to New York or you go to Bombay, mumbai or Shanghai or Tokyo or London or Paris high-rise buildings of the same kind. There's a diversity of cities. When you used to go to Rome or Vienna or Delhi, each city had different architecture, different way of organizing. Now, everywhere the same shopping malls. You can go anywhere, you can buy the same thing, and so chains of shopping centers and shopping malls and chain stores everywhere.

Speaker 1:

So I think this mechanistic and reductionistic, technological, industrial mindset had helped to create. And then our education has followed and our education has conditioned our mind in a kind of left brain way, logical and mechanized, and a kind of very factual and uniform. That's a kind of left brain thinking, but the right brain is more relational and more intuitive and more imaginative, more creative, more poetic and so on. So what we need I would say the reason we have this mindset of uniformity is to summarize the education and industrial system. We need to have industrial system a bit less and more ecological, more natural, more human, more artistic, more crafts. Those things are right brain aspect. So if we are balancing the brain and your left brain and right brain working together, that will be a better future for humanity rather than just being controlled by the left brain thinking and everything mechanized and industrialized and no human and no natural and no ecological dimension.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Thank you, satish, and what you're saying is absolutely wonderful, and when I was researching before this, ahead of this conversation with you, I found a piece that you'd written for Resurgence after you'd been to Bhutan for an education conference of some.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, yes, yes, I was in Bhutanutan.

Speaker 2:

yes how wonderful that you were in bhutan. Did you enjoy it? What was it like?

Speaker 1:

yes, yes, it's a beautiful country, beautiful mountains and lovely people, very small country and yet they have a very beautiful culture and religion and and more diversity of dressing, diversity of language. So I loveutan. And Bhutan is the only country which said we are not interested in gross national product or economic growth. We are interested in gross national happiness and we want growth in happiness, growth in well-being, rather than growth in economics and industrialism and so on. That's one small country showing us the way that human happiness and human well-being should be our goal, and economic growth is not the be all and end all. That's not the real purpose of life. The real purpose of life is human well-being, and economy should be in the service of humanity, not human beings in the service of the economy.

Speaker 2:

So beautifully put, thank you, and it brings to mind. In fact, in the article that you wrote following that conference, you mentioned about the three Rs for economic growth. You know the usual three Rs, not that they're actually ours, but the reading, writing and arithmetic that traditionally gets taught, and you put forward four h's instead yes, yes, I did four h's um.

Speaker 1:

I put head, heart, hands and happiness. Is that the four h's?

Speaker 2:

oh, home in fact it was four h's oh home in fact it was the four h's for happiness. Yes, you said yeah education for happiness yeah, head, heart, hands and home.

Speaker 1:

That's right. Yeah, that's what I wrote, because you know, as I said, left brain education has given too much importance to head and only half head, the left brain, not the two sides of brain, and so that education to me is not complete, not holistic. We need to develop and cultivate our intellectual and academic and also kind of thinking brain, but at the same time, in every school, children should learn to cultivate their heart quality, the feeling quality, the courage. The word courage comes from the heart, kul means heart, and so we don't teach our children to be courageous. Fear rules the world today. And what I'm saying? That our education cultivate heart qualities so that we can have courageous, fearless people in the world and they can take adventurous life. So heart is very important and in our education heart is a missing element.

Speaker 1:

And the hands are also very important, because right side of the brain and hands are connected. When you are making something with your hand, you have to be creative, you have to be imaginative, you have to be intuitive, and so your right side of the brain and your hands work together. So it's not just for necessity but even for our own happiness and well-being and creativity and imagination. We need to make something. At the moment we have become just consumers. Machines make everything and we just consume, buy, consume, buy, consume, not make. We are makers. So I want a society of makers, I want a society of artists, I want a society of poets who are making something and not just consumers. So at the moment we have become a consumer society. I want a maker society. So this is why I put head, heart and hands together, and when you have head, heart and hands together we can make a home.

Speaker 1:

Because at the moment we are ruthless, we are homeless. We go anywhere we like just to get a job and we don't put any roots anywhere. We don't have a garden, we don't have a job and we don't put any roots anywhere. We don't have a garden, we don't have a home. We live in an apartment or flat or something for temporary basis. So home gives you kind of rootedness. You put your roots where you have family. You have children. Children grow in a garden and maybe by the river or by the sea or by trees, something natural. So home is very important. At the moment those things are missing and we have become too much in our education obsessed with our left brain, head, and so this is why Bhutan was a very good example for me, inspiring example that they are bringing happiness and to bring happiness, they are bringing head, heart, hands and home.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and as you're speaking Satish and I'm absolutely, you know, enjoying every word that you're saying, I'm also admiring your wonderful sweater that you're wearing and it looks very much handmade, handmade, yes absolutely handmade.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah wonderful style of knitting both jumpers I'm wearing are handmade and and and and. When you make something by hand, it's unique. I don't think you can find something like this anywhere. It's made by a friend and therefore it's unique and I'm wearing it.

Speaker 2:

And isn't that lovely, then, that you have that. That gives you the connection to that friend and it gives you a story that you can tell. So often when we wear clothes that are mass produced, there's no story attached to it. That's right.

Speaker 1:

This is why I would like to see all our schools should have a garden and all our schools should teach children to make something, craftsmanship and artisan.

Speaker 1:

And so when you make something, cooking is very important. Every school should have a garden so that children learn how to grow vegetables and flowers and herbs and see the miracle of nature, the magic of nature that you put one seed in the soil, that one seed can become a tomato plant, giving you a hundred tomatoes from one little seed. That's a miracle. It's the magic of nature, and so children should experience that magic. And so every school in England or in Britain or in Europe or in the world should have a garden. And the same way, I would like every school to have a kitchen where children and teachers cook together, eat together, celebrate life together and then study together. So in our Sanskrit, in Indian tradition, we say Sahana, babatu sahan, that we should cook together, we should eat together and we should act together, and that's a kind of our ancient wisdom, ancient teaching of togetherness. At the moment we have become too individualistic and we don't do things together.

Speaker 2:

But if you cook together, eat together and walk together and act together, that brings a sense of community beautiful and, uh, I think that this is the cause of so much depression that we, uh, that adults and children, I think probably experience when we're so disconnected from one another and we're spending the whole time, you know, particularly now with the devices and the technology and everything, and we're so self-contained, we think that we can exist in our own little bubble and if we need some sugar, we can order it from, you know, from the internet, rather than calling on a neighbor.

Speaker 2:

It seems so sad in many ways that that you know we, in fact I, I, we moved here to West Wales in five years ago and really we know a few people, but we don't know that many people locally because we don't need to, you know, and it seems so sad in many ways that we all kind of coexist in our little bubbles, but we it's so easy to not, um, not live together and not participate in a community together, and I wonder if you have any comments I um about, about how to nurture those, that togetherness, and those to build community?

Speaker 1:

Yes, absolutely. The individualism has become a bit too strong and we have lost a sense of community and we have forgotten that all our thriving is mutual and the mutuality and reciprocity is the basic principle of human relationship. If you just say, oh, I don't need anybody, I have banks and I have shopping malls and I have computers and I have everything and I can just deal with the world with computers and banks and shopping malls, and I don't need other human beings, that's not the source of happiness and that's not a source of thriving. So mutuality creates a sense of community. Re. So mutuality creates a sense of community. Reciprocity creates a sense of community. And so we have to educate our young children, particularly because you have to start early. If your minds are conditioned and brains are washed to think in a technological way, an individualistic way, and have no sense of community and no sense of mutuality and no sense of reciprocity and no sense of relationship and just individualism. Individual is fine, we are all individuals, but individuals have to relate to other individuals and work together, and so that love, that relationship, is the fundamental. Nothing can exist by itself. Even a human body is a community of millions of bacteria. Our human body is made of all the history of the past. Evolution of the past, from the Big Bang billions of years ago to now. From the Big Bang billions of years ago to now, we have been evolving. So I am product of a long line of evolution. So nothing can exist in a separation, nothing can exist by itself. Not even an atom, not even a particle, not even electron or proton or smallest of the small thing cannot exist by itself. Existence happens only when things come in a relationship and in a community. So that sense of community, sense of belonging, sense of mutuality, sense of reciprocity, those things have to be part of our educational system, our media, our culture, our politics. Everything has to be based on that sense of community that we are together. Everything happens in relationship and not in isolation. And this is why, in a way, you know René Descartes, the French philosopher. He came up with this idea that I think, therefore I am, and therefore we became very much self-centered, whereas I wrote a book called you Are, therefore I Am. We live in relationships, we exist in relationships. We don't exist in our brain, in our mind, in our thinking. We exist in parents. Therefore I am the farmers go mind. In our thinking we exist in. Parents were there, for I am. The farmers go food, therefore I am, and the builders build houses, therefore I am. Teachers teach me, therefore I am. Doctors and nurses look after me, therefore I am.

Speaker 1:

We are all made of relationship, and that's a sense of community and this individualism, me, me, me, egocentric kind of philosophy that we have today prevailing in our society. We have to move from this ego to eco. Eco means home. Eco is a Greek, beautiful word from which we get economy and ecology. It's a kind of knowledge of ecosystem. Ecology and management of ecosystem is economy, and so economy and ecology come from a word home, and a nature and a relationship.

Speaker 1:

And so we have moved from ego, from eco, to ego, me, me, me. So we are educating our young people for my success, my name, my fame, my prestige, my power, my home, my career, my, everything, me, me, me. So we have to move from me to we. That's a sense of community, me to we, I to we. So you are, therefore I am. So I look after you, you look after me. That's a mutuality. Not I look after myself, you look after me. That's a mutuality. Not I look after myself, you look after yourself. Separation. So we have to move away from this idea of separation and embrace the idea of relationship. We are all related. That's a fundamental truth that we have forgotten in our modern industrialized, individualized, isolated, disconnected society. Individualized, isolated disconnected society.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, very, very inspiring, beautiful, thank you.

Speaker 2:

And what comes to mind is that we have to need each other somehow.

Speaker 2:

Well, we do need each other and we are kind of hypnotized at the moment, many of us, to think that we don't need each other, and I think that's the cause of so much pain and suffering. And I personally, on my own travels around the world and you mentioned about crossing Iranian deserts and I had a similar experience of cycling across these never ending stretches of Iranian desert and in those moments, sometimes we would run out of water, for example, and not know how we would find water. And, of course, enough times it happened that a lorry would pull over and say would you like some water? There was always this sense of we couldn't carry enough for ourselves weren't as extreme as you, satish, in that we, we did have money in our own funds to pay for our trip, but certainly I I can imagine for you, you didn't have that, and always you were provided for by the people that you met and you needed them, and there must have been. How was that for you to to always be needing other people when, when?

Speaker 1:

people. The two factors. One, when people realize that we are walking for peace. That was something touched people's hearts. So, oh, you are walking for peace in the world, you're working for us. That was the kind of response. You are working for us, that was the kind of response you are working for us, for our well-being, oh, thank you. And therefore, how can we help you? And so in Iran you mentioned, in deserts, I mean, we will start walking and then suddenly a van will come, whom we met last night or previous day, and a van will come, or car will come and stop and say we thought it's the desert. We will be, you will be hungry, so we have brought some food for you, we have brought some drink for you, there's some melons for you and so, and nuts for you, and so people will come specially to look after us because we were walking for peace. And that touched people's hearts.

Speaker 1:

That's number one. Number two, when they said that you are walking without money. That's almost like you are a fakir, or you are a monk, or you are like a sadhu, or you are somebody with no kind of money and therefore you are really, we must look after you. So, having mission for peace and having no money. Those two things actually helped us to connect with people and meet more people. If we were walking and eating in a restaurant and staying in a hotel or restaurant, you don't need anybody, you don't need anybody. But if you have no money, then you are forced to find somebody to look after you, to give you hospitality, to give you bed for the night, to give you breakfast for the morning. So that helped us to connect with people and in that way, our journey became much more inspiring, interesting and successful than if we were having money. We really met people and people helped us tremendously.

Speaker 2:

That's very, yeah, yeah, very inspiring again and brings to. I was laughing there when you mentioned the melons, because I remember that in iran we had an ongoing joke that we always had a melon strapped on the back of the bicycle because and we'd be eating so fast to try and finish the melon because it was so heavy and then somebody would arrive and present another melon. So very beautiful and very kind people.

Speaker 1:

And not only we were walking without money, but we were vegetarians and therefore finding food in Iran and Afghanistan and Muslim countries and also Christian countries in Armenia and Georgia, food without meat was also a very big challenge. And still this is why I mentioned melon and grapes and nuts people will give us that, so we could survive on fruit and nuts and bread and tea and we didn't have to eat meat. So, vegetarian, walking without money, walking for peace all those helped us to make our journey a great success it's so wonderful.

Speaker 2:

um, yeah, thank you. I'll just take a look at my questions here to see to see which other things yeah so Satish the work that I do in the world is. I'm a hypnotherapist and I work with, I help other entrepreneurs and what I love one thing I love about you is that you speak about. Would you like to speak about being having been called something to do with the realists?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I mean when I talk like I'm talking with you, people say to me the Satish is all very well, but very idealistic, get real and be in the real world. So I said, all right, I'm an idealist, I agree, but the world is being ruled by the realists. And please tell me what the realists have achieved. We have poverty, we have hunger, we have nuclear bombs, we have kind of wars, we have kind of so many problems in the world today. They are all created by the realists. So realists had their chance and they are ruling the world and the world is not a happy place. So please give an idealist a chance and let idealism prevail. And time has come for idealists and realists had their chance and they have not showed anything wonderful. They have not showed any solutions to the problems of the world. So give idealists a chance and maybe and you know all the great people who inspire me Mahatma Gandhi was an idealist, martin Luther King was an idealist, mother Teresa was an idealist, dalai Lama was an idealist, the Buddha was an idealist.

Speaker 1:

These are the people who are the salt of the earth. They sustain our vision, our values, inspiration and our ideals and they make us happy when we read Buddha and Jesus Christ and Mahatma Gandhi and Marshall King and Mother Teresa and the people of that level and the Dalai Lama, then we feel much more joyful, whereas I mean, you can have Putin and and Modi and Stama and all those people. There's no inspiration and they are all kind of. So I think idealists have a much more message and a much more kind of food for thought and food for soul, love and friendship and compassion and kindness and generosity, and that's what makes you happy. People think that money will make me happy, but that's not proven. Nobody can prove me that people with money are happy. But people who have kindness and generosity and love in their heart, those who are idealists and doing something good for the world, they, they are more happy. So I think it's a time for the idealist and a time for realist is enough gone.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and this is the I I. When I heard this from you, I thought, yes, absolutely, and this is very much the. The subject of my own work is to help entrepreneurs to have their big visions, very big visions for what's possible. How can we change the world? How can we have a very big vision for something substantially different? And then this is the question, because sometimes, when we're very open and maybe we go to an event like summer camp or we listen to an inspiring person like yourself speak and we feel our hearts are open and our and blue sky thinking and we think, okay, this is what I could do. And then, in the cold light of day the next day, we go home and life is happening and things are busy and suddenly the little nagging doubts come back. And actually this is what I help people with hypnotherapy. But I'm curious to hear have you ever experienced these kinds of doubts about who you are or what you're capable of, and, if so, how did you overcome them?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, I mean, we are all humans and we all have some negative moments and we face psychological problems, we face emotional problems, we face relationship problems. So that's all part of human life and human existence. So I say to myself that the direction of my travel is from anger to trust. Direction of my travel is from fear to courage. If I travel like my body, my body sometimes gets cold or sometimes gets headache or sometimes ill health, but the direction of my travel is not towards illness, but direction of travel is towards health. So in the same way, um, that will lead me from kind of despair to hope. That's we have to move from despair to hope and not from hope despair.

Speaker 1:

So when the problems come in my life, I say say problems, you are welcome, you have come to problems, difficulties are welcome. If life was very smooth and no problems, no ups, no downs, life would be very boring. So life will have a problem. So I welcome problems, I welcome difficulties, I welcome ups and downs. Like we were talking about pilgrimage. So when I'm walking in pilgrimage I just say we are walking the coast path, you go down, then you go up and you go down and you go up If your path was smooth or level, it'd be boring, and so I never expect my life to be completely happy and joyful and loving and kind and compassionate all the time. That's neither possible nor desirable. So when you have a bit of anger, a bit of fear, a bit of anxiety, that's the time to meditate, to read poetry, read Hafiz, read Rumi, read William Blake, read Shakespeare, his sonnets, and meditate and go out in the walking and resolve the problem. In the same way, if you get headache, then you rest, you sleep, you take some herbal medicine and you look after yourself. So life is always a pilgrimage.

Speaker 1:

A pilgrimage is not straightforward. So I say to people don't say that you should not have a problem in life. You only have to think how I solve the problems in a creative way and an imaginative way and a kind of spiritual way, rather than get depressed by. So direction of my travel is from problem to solution. But I say, if there are no problems, how do I move towards solution? So problems are welcome so that I can find solution and I can move towards hope and love and compassion and generosity and kindness and a good quality that I can cultivate. So do not fear or worry that you get problems because we are humans. No human beings can be completely healthy or completely problem free. Healthy or or completely problem free, and the part of life is ups and downs, but always travel towards hope and and and trust and and alarm and compassion thank you, satish.

Speaker 2:

Um, I was listening to an interview that you gave in which you were telling your story, and you started right back when you were four years old, in the traumatic moment of losing your father and um you, and this led you to to become a monk that's right, that's right yeah that's right. As a nine-year-old boy, yeah, yes and um, and I was thinking, and then you, and then, in the same interview, you, you described I don't know how long you stayed there in the monastery, but he came to me in my dream.

Speaker 1:

And he said that how many people can become sadhus and monks and live in a monastic order? Only a few. That means spirituality becomes exclusive to very few, a small number of people, whereas spirituality should be available and accessible to everybody. And so we need to find a way of living in the world and practice compassion, nonviolence, truth, love, all the good qualities of spirituality. So that was, in my dream, mahatma Gandhi, and so that unsettled me and that kind of challenged me and said I am escaping from the world. I think world is dirty, world is sinful. I am escaping from the world, I think the world is dirty, the world is sinful and I must escape from the world, I must run away from the world. And Mahatma Gandhi said the world is beautiful and I have to make the world even better and more beautiful with your love and compassion, and not run away from it. So that was such a kind of great teaching of Mahatma Gandhi in my dream.

Speaker 1:

I never met Mahatma Gandhi when I was, only when I was a monk, and I was only about kind of how old I was. I was only about I was only about 12 or 13 years old when Mahatma Gandhi passed away. He was assassinated, so I never met him, and yet he came to me in my dream and that's what inspired me, and so I left the robe, but I did not leave the spiritual values of peace, of relationship, of kindness, of service. All those spiritual values have remained with me. So I can also say thank you, my gratitude to my spiritual monkhood teachers, because they taught me some spiritual values. But the only thing I did is to practice those spiritual values in the world rather than in a monastic order, in a robe, as a monk and as a name, and and so on, and so that's the only difference.

Speaker 2:

But but the spirituality is same, still with me, and so I thank my, my monkhood, yes, and I think myself and everybody listening will also thank you for um, for bringing that spirituality into the world, because I'm sure that you, you, have inspired many more. Perhaps human beings have been inspired by you as a result of that coming into the world in that way, um, and I wondered you know if you were. There's a bit of a hypothetical, imaginary question, perhaps almost to finish with. We're coming to the end of our time together, but I was curious about that. You know that experience of signing up to be a monk when you were nine years old, and I was wondering about you know if you could meet that version of yourself now, if you could meet the nine-year-old who was on the brink of, you know, going to become a jane monk, I wondered what you might say to him I don't think I will change every day.

Speaker 1:

That was a good training for me. I mean, walking around the world became easy because I knew how to walk. And then for nine years, from age 9 to 18, I lived without money, so I could walk around the world without money, because I knew that you can live without money. So I would not change my inspiration at age nine to become a monk and live as a monk. That was a good training for me. But I'm also very happy that at age 18 I met in my dream Mahatma Gandhi, and I left the monkhood and that also also a kind of.

Speaker 1:

I had to bring a lot of courage in my heart because leaving monastic order at night, because you are not allowed to leave the monastic order, so I had to break the law, break the rule, break the monastic bow and at midnight, after everybody's asleep, I ran away and escaped from the monastery and ran away. That was quite a lot of courage was needed and so that was also important for me. So courage and then finding a new world and then going and living in a Gandhian ashram and learning to cook, learning to garden, learning to spin, learning to do practical things which I did not do as a monk. It was a very good training to do practical things, which I did not do as a monk, so it was a very good training. So all the things I have done in my life I would not regret or say I should have done something different. They were all part of learning and part of pilgrimage and part of experience and I'm very happy the way life has unfolded.

Speaker 2:

Beautiful. Thank you, satish. And I had another question here, another hypothetical one, which is a bit of a fun one. I wondered you know, on the in the on the theme of tea, after your peace tea delivery around the world to the world leaders, I was thinking if you could have a cup of tea, if you could sit down with anybody dead or alive to have a cup of tea and just have a conversation. I wondered who you might choose to have a cup of tea.

Speaker 1:

I would like to have tea with people who are at war Netanyahu, zelensky, putin, people like that or Hamas Because I think that you can sit and share a share a cup of tea that's much more powerful to find a way of resolving your problems than killing hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine or Gaza or wherever it is. And so I would be very happy to have a cup of tea with anybody, not just my friends, who I like, but somebody with whom I don't agree, and I want to sit down with them and have a cup of tea and say a cup of tea is stronger than a tank or a bomb. A cup of tea has more power, because when you are having a cup of tea, you cannot kill each other. You have to talk to one another and only through talking and listening and sharing your ideas and your concerns and your fears and your hopes that you share together, that you can live together. So I would say that both sides in any war should sit down together and have a cup of tea and renounce violence. I think Hamas should renounce violence and Israel should renounce violence. Ukraine should renounce violence and Russia should renounce violence and Russia should renounce violence. Violence cannot solve any problem. In the end you have to sit down together and have a cup of tea.

Speaker 1:

And so a cup of tea is a very powerful symbol and particularly it has been developed in China, taiwan, korea, japan, in those far eastern countries. So they have tea ceremony and they sit, sit together, and then there's no enemy, there's no weapons, you're holding you, everybody is a friend, and you share the same cup of tea in a calm way, gentle way, slow way, no rush. That's, I think, wonderful, that um, southeast asian countries have developed and and so we must practice, even in england. I would say. Tea is a very important part tea, you invite people for tea and, and after your work you go for tea home. Tea is a very important symbol and I think tea is a symbol of peace, in the East particularly, but even in the West. So Mr Putin and Zelensky sit down together and share a cup of tea.

Speaker 2:

Beautiful. Thank you, satish, and I wonder if you just have a moment just as a message for any young people you know, young people coming of age now in this world, with all this violence around, I wonder whether you have a message just for those people.

Speaker 1:

My message to young people is be adventurous, be courageous, do not find easy answers or easy way and act in the service of humanity and the service of the planet Earth, not expecting any results, not expecting any outcome immediately, because if you expect results and you don't get the results, you have disappointment and you don't want to be disappointed. So anything you do should be an offering, should be in the service of humanity and service of the planet earth. So if you act out of love and not out of anger, not out of fear, not out of anxiety, not out of condemnation, but out of love, even love for those with whom you don't agree. You have to love even those whom you don't like. So young people at the moment get a little burnout. They act out of anger, they act out of anxiety, they are expecting results, they want people to behave in a good way so that planet is looked after and people don't behave. Therefore, they get the burnout, they get disappointed.

Speaker 1:

So I say I'm 88. I'm still an activist and I want to remain an activist until the last breath of my life. And I say I'm 88, I'm still an activist and I want to remain an activist until the last breath of my life, and I have no burnout because I'm not expecting anything. I'm offering my action in the service of humanity and the service of the planet Earth. So if young people can do that, then they can be an activist up to the last breath of their life and have no burnout and no disappointment and no disillusionment. So this is all message I want to give to young people.

Speaker 1:

I was a young man when I started walking around the world. I was 26 years old, and I did it with love and not anxiety and fear and anger and so on, and so our actions should come out of hope and positive thinking rather than negative thinking and anger and fear and anxiety. That's the only message I want to give to people like Greta Thunberg and people others of the same age, young people. They are doing wonderful work. I admire them, I congratulate them, but I also say to them that act out of love and not out of fear beautiful thank you and such a lovely message to finish on um, we've come to the end of our time together, satish.

Speaker 2:

I'm I'm so grateful, uh, that you that you agreed to join me today. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

It was my pleasure and thank you for good questions and I enjoyed our conversation, thank you wonderful and before we finish I just wanted to say to anybody listening that um satish will be coming to summer camp again in in sussex, uh, in september. So I'll put the links to um. Take a look at the the summer camp website, you'll be able to. If you come, you'll be able to come and hear Satish talk. Will you be giving a talk again in a workshop?

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, yes, yes yes.

Speaker 1:

But also, if I may say that we have a magazine called Resurgence and Ecologist. If any listeners are interested in our work and in my writings, please. It's a very good kind of price, good value, six issues, beautifully produced, 80 page issues, six times a year. You can only put 36 pounds. It's a very, very good bargain price and it's a beautiful magazine and you get my articles in it but also other articles, and then you get a lot of information about Schumacher College and other courses and we are in a kind of in a partnership with the Happy Startup School and Summer Camp. So working together is our work.

Speaker 2:

It's so beautiful, working together is our work. That seems like such a lovely message and so, yeah, potent one for people who are listening, who, maybe, who are used to working on their own. But, yeah, what an invitation. Let's all work together and and without expectation for you know, without feeling disappointment just give our work as an offering to the world. I think that's such a lovely idea. Thank you so much, sat Satish, for being a guest.

Speaker 1:

My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me and thank you for giving me the opportunity to communicate these words and these ideas and share these ideas with you and your listeners. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's been an absolute pleasure and I look forward to seeing you again in September, see you then.

Speaker 2:

Ok, thank you so much, satish Pleasure. In September. See you then. Okay, thank you so much, satish Pleasure. Hi there, betty, again, how are you feeling after that? That was quite a ride, hey.

Speaker 2:

Did Satish stir up your enthusiasm and your excitement for life and your love of life like he did for me? I was just, yeah, I'm kind of speechless actually now I don't really know what to say. Having listened back to this conversation, I just feel like, yeah, let I agree with him completely. Let's all be idealists. And what, what? Which area? Um, what? What's your passion? What are you dedicating your life to? What's your idealistic future future? What's that, uh, idealistic vision for the future future, um, and can you offer your work, your vision, to the earth, to humanity, as an offering, without any expectation that will make any difference at all? But can you still show up and can you still be an activist for that vision, inspired by all these great leaders, thought leaders, humanitarians who've come before us? You know, it's our turn to be idealists and to give of ourselves in service of everything, in service of it all, all beings everywhere. Ah, so exciting. I wish you absolute luck and the greatest fulfillment and happiness as you work to make your vision for the future a reality.

Speaker 2:

And one more thought, actually, just before I, before I go, I just wanted to remind people that on the 4th of June 2025, I'm offering my signature workshop, which is called heal your past, grow your business, change the world. It's free to attend. It's 90 minutes and I call it a breakthrough activator. It's like a DIY method for how to make the connection between your past, your story, and how you might be tripping up, getting stuck in the present, so that you can unlock your greatest potential for the future and this great vision that you have, this idealistic vision that you might have because of your unique position, your unique way of being, your unique story. You're uniquely placed to offer something in the world, and we can get so caught up in old stories, old conditioning, old karma, based on where we come from, what we thought was available, who we think we are or who we think we have to be in order to pull something off like that. These old stories can really trip us up and just stop us from taking any action at all. So if you're feeling stuck in any way or you're feeling like, who am I to do such a thing, to offer such a thing. This is just an old story. It's not true. It's just an old story. It's a habit of thought and we can.

Speaker 2:

We can pull out that weed from the garden of your mind and and instant and plant some better beliefs. You know. Plant some beautiful beliefs that will support you and nourish you and feed you and your community and your family. You know, beliefs like I am worthy. I do deserve success, just like anyone else deserves success. Just like a tree deserves the rain deserves the sun, I deserve good things. And you know, when you do that, when you, when you're able to just get over yourself and offer your thing anyway, that is a gift, that is an offering for your community, for your family, for all of humanity.

Speaker 2:

So I invite you to join me on the 4th of June um, it's 6 pm, british time. You can find the link in the show notes. It's completely free and we'll dig into how we can heal our past and neutralise old karma so that we can show up and be the person we need to be in order to bring about that future vision. I'll see you there and if that time has passed and yeah, you can you can find that workshop recording on my website truewealthwithbettycom. I'll catch you next time. Thanks for listening, thank you.