✨ True Wealth with Betty ✨

Serendipity, non-linearity & how to be happy in life & business w/Carlos Saba

• Betty Cottam Bertels • Season 3 • Episode 10

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Carlos Saba, co-founder of the Happy Startup School, shares his fascinating journey from quantum physicist to soulful business coach, exploring how scientific understanding and spiritual awareness can complement each other in entrepreneurship.

• From PhD in atomic physics to helping entrepreneurs find clarity and purpose
• Distinguishing between trauma-based reactions and authentic inner knowing in decision making
• How quantum physics provides metaphors for interconnectedness while maintaining scientific integrity
• Research showing "lucky" people succeed through awareness and openness rather than inherent fortune
• The balance between focused intention and awareness of serendipitous opportunities
• Self-referencing: making choices based on your authentic needs rather than external expectations
• How disconnecting from routine at events like Summer Camp creates space for synchronicities
• The importance of ritual and marking transitions in modern life
• Competing commitments: balancing vision with day-to-day responsibilities

If you'd like to learn more about Carlos Saba and the Happy Startup School, visit thehappystartupschool.com or find "The Happy Entrepreneur" podcast on your favourite platform. 

Summer Camp takes place in September in Sussex 🏕  ...and this year (2025) Betty will be giving her signature "Heal your Past. Grow you Business. Change the World." workshop 

-- See you there?! 


From Betty: Being in business means being visible. Being ethical in business means not using dodgy tactics, of course, but also being authentic in how we present ourselves ~~

The trouble is… Many of us carry wounds around being seen, accepted, and celebrated as the individual we are.

Left untended, these wounds divide our will, i.e. we end up with conflicted desires:

Part of us wants to be visible to grow our businesses, but another part of us is absolutely dead set on staying well and truly within the shadows… Becuase that's where it's SAFE.

…whether that means literally hiding under the duvet (I've been there 🥸),

...mega procrastination & self sabotage

…or pretending to be someone we are not, so as not to stand out (I've also been there 🤫).

The push & pull can be utterly EXHAUSTING.

But the good news is, it's relatively quick & easy to fix, once you access the level of the subconscious mind, using a modality such as hypnosis.

Come to my free 90 min workshop on 4th June 2025 and I'll teach you how you can set yourself free from past hurts, and leap confidently in the direction of your dreams.


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Speaker 1:

I think there is something for me. This is what's fascinated me about the work and the journey that we're on with the Happy Startup School is, and particularly as a scientist, kind of marrying this idea of manifesting and intentions setting with, you know, a kind of a linear view of life and also even a scientific appreciation of life. And what I've been curious about is particularly around this idea of synchronicities and serendipities and luck for instance.

Speaker 1:

I remember reading something around the studies like no set of people are inherently more lucky than the other. What makes the difference is their openness to new things oh, interesting. And their awareness of being present to what's happening right now and not being limited and too focused right now and not being limited and too focused.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the True Wealth podcast, where we ask the question what does it mean to be truly wealthy in this digital age of distraction and disconnection? I'm your host, betty Cotton-Burtles. Blues singer, buddhist, mum of two and former global shoestring adventurer, turned hypnotherapist and mindset coach. I believe that by healing our past and changing our beliefs, we may achieve not only the external successes the house, the relationship, the money, the impact but also internal success, the ability to actually enjoy our lives, because it's the joy and happiness that makes it all worthwhile and happiness that makes it all worthwhile. Join me as I invite friends, colleagues and esteemed teachers to discuss means of enhancing enjoyment in our lives, following our inspiration as individuals to create whatever it is that lights us up, so that we might radiate that energy out into the world via our businesses or our day-to-day lives, with the intention that all beings may benefit. I believe that this is where true wealth lies. Welcome to the show. Hello, lovely, lovely people of the podcast listeners. Betty here After coming back to you after a slight break there through April, I enjoyed three weeks with my kids home from school, just chilling and taking it easy and visiting people and enjoying the lovely weather here in Wales.

Speaker 2:

And now I'm back to it and I have a lot of wonderful conversations coming to you, not least this absolutely well, I found it such an enjoyable conversation with today's guest, carlos Saba of the Happy Startup School. Today's guest, carlos Saba of the Happy Startup School. I first came across Carlos and Lawrence, his co-founder, when Tad Hargrave recommended I check out Summer Camp. In fact, it was a very strong recommendation where he said, if you do thing uh, this year for your business, betty, you need to go to summer camp. And he was right. I mean, as I've talked about many, many times already, um, and particularly in the episode with lawrence which you may have heard we go back and listen to that one, lawrence, mckay hill Hill, all about summer camp and the happy startup school. And yeah, it was. It was just such a wonderful experience and I did meet Carlos there, but of course, um, you know, when he was running the event, we didn't have time to sit down together and actually have a proper chat and a connection. So this was such a pleasant surprise because I didn't know what to expect. A lot of people I know really, really respect Carlos and I was really looking forward to getting to sit down with him and I didn't know which way the conversation was going to go, and it goes in all sorts of tangential directions, which I found utterly fascinating, and I really hope that you will too.

Speaker 2:

We talk about quantum physics, as he is a doctor of quantum physics. He has a PhD in quantum physics, which blows my mind, you know, such a fascinating subject and not one that I really feel qualified to talk about, but I'm just so fascinated by it. Um, so we talk a little bit about that. I do my best to, you know, meet him in conversation on that topic, but he's very kind and um, dumbs things down for me to not really. But you know, conversation was very easy and natural and, um, we talk about healing, we talk about being ourselves, the importance of just being who we are and how to do that, and we talk about linearity and non-linearity. Um, just so many interesting things, so I won't bore you with the details.

Speaker 2:

I will simply move on over and, uh, present you with today's conversation with Carlos Saba from the Happy Startup School, and I will just say one more thing, which is I urge you, if you do have the chance, to get to any of the Happy Startup events and they have Summer Camp, which is down in Sussex in September, and I'll be giving my workshop there this year, which is really exciting. My workshop heal your past to grow your business. Heal your past, grow your business. Change the world with a? Um childhood healing hypnosis. Live there in one of the tents and they'll be, and Satish Kumar will be there again. Who's a guest? That is one of the conversations that will be coming to you in the in the coming weeks, because we recorded a wonderful conversation thanks to having met him at summer camp. So, really, you know, wonderful connections are there to be made and you'll also have an absolute blast with a wood-fired sauna overlooking a lake. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2:

It goes on um so much and and inspiring talks and workshops and all the rest and then also the happy startup school they do um altitude, which I spoke to lawrence about, about Carlos and I were um didn't cover these things because I'd already talked to Carlo, uh, to Lawrence about them so, yeah, go back and listen to the conversation with Lawrence McKay Hill if you want to find out more.

Speaker 2:

And, um, yeah, check out. Check out the happy startup school and summer camp, as well as their other events. I'll put all the links for you in the show notes. The website for summer camp is happystartupsummercamp, so you can check that out. Happy startup summer dot camp. All right, uh, I hope. Oh, my goodness, I'd love to meet some of you in person. Anyone who's listening. I'd love it if you came to summer camp and if you do, do come and say hello. I'd love to meet you. Um, with that, with no further ado, this is Carlos Saba from the Happy Startup School. Enjoy, so welcome, carlos. It's such a pleasure to have you here.

Speaker 1:

Thank you and apologies for not turning up sooner.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's my fault. Actually I was a bit slow on the responding, but, yeah, really really a pleasure to have you here and to get to know you a little bit, because obviously we met at summer camp last year, which I've talked about in many different episodes of the podcast. Now it just seems to pop up in almost every episode. So there you go. Um, it's that. Yeah, the last one that's gone out is Gemma Gilbert. Well, and we were, we obviously met at summer camp and, yeah, lots of reminiscing about swimming and the weather and just how wonderful it is. So I mean, everybody who's listening now has heard a lot about summer camp.

Speaker 2:

Um, so I won't bang on too much about that one, no well let's, let's really like you know, let's really make them get that FOMO, if they haven't already got it. No, but, and also we've we've spoken to Lawrence, which was lovely obviously your co-founder, so it's really nice to meet you At Summer Camp. You were obviously very busy, there was a lot going on and we didn't really get the chance to sit down and have a chat, so I'm really excited that we are doing that now. So welcome. Where are you in the world and what's going on there today and how are you arriving?

Speaker 1:

I am based in Brighton in the UK. We are in the process of launching Tribe 11 of our Vision 2020 program, so that's yeah, it's quite crazy to think that something that started in the pandemic is still going strong which is lovely and that all the sales that that entails so, yeah, it's both energizing and draining. It's always energizing when you meet the right person and you're on the right person to help them, and it's also draining when you're just chasing people and it's just, you know, just get back to me please. So there's that element there and I had a wonderful conversation. I'm part of another community called the like-hearted leaders community and it's my opportunity to be in someone else's space and they have the kinds of conversations that it's spark curiosity and, yeah, um, exploration, which always energizes me. So this morning I am feeling energized by that conversation, with a tinge of anxiety because of all the business stuff I also still need to do.

Speaker 2:

Well, thanks for taking the time little window out of that to come and talk to us. Yeah, beautiful. It's so nice, isn't it to? Just when you're used to being the host and being the one holding the meetings and running things. God, it's so important to just go and be held in someone else's space, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you just worry about yourself. Then you don't have to worry about everyone else.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, god, and as a parent I want to say we were just talking about uh early morning getting to school, dramas just before we hit uh record. So, um, yeah, as a parent, when you're just used to taking care of people, yeah yeah, being able to take care of yourself yeah, nice.

Speaker 2:

So it's nice that you do that every Friday. So, carlos, just before doing my research before this podcast, I was looking at your LinkedIn page and your tagline is great, and I've got to, I've got to say it out loud for everybody it's. I used to make atoms bounce and now I make souls soar. Isn't that great? That is brilliant.

Speaker 1:

So explain please. Okay, I used to make atoms bounce. Many, many years ago I did a PhD in atomic physics.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Whoa, hang on a minute, just whoa. There, you did a PhD in atomic physics.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Okay, what even is atomic physics? So?

Speaker 1:

it is the study of the structure of matter. So how does matter actually work at the atomic scale, at the quantum level? Cool, it's always a conversation, yeah.

Speaker 2:

That is really cool, Okay, and now you make soul. So I mean, like we could go down that rabbit hole. Maybe we'll come back to it. I'd be curious actually. You know, maybe you can weave this in in some magical way of like how that experience is relevant. I bet you, I bet it's relevant, isn't it that understanding? I mean, how does that feed into the work that you're doing? How is it kind of? How does that feed into the work that you're doing? How is it kind of? How does it serve you, or does it feel completely different and separate?

Speaker 1:

this is quite interesting because it relates to the conversation we were having this morning around meaning making and regret and integrating past experiences and sliding doors moments, and so I could say that doing a PhD in atomic physics was totally of none, not of any service to me as a coach for midlife entrepreneurs and professionals wanting to make a transition, because there's nothing around understanding wave mechanics, building magneto optical traps, working with lasers that you could apply directly to helping someone get more clarity. And a lot of people in this space, particularly the on the woo end of the spectrum of coaching, talk about quantum states of nature and energy and the universe, and so on one level it's so frustrating because they're using language in a way that just does not sound right and at the same time, I I can make sense, in a sense of I can what science has learned at this very fundamental level, to the stories that we can tell about what it means to be a conscious, resonant, energetic being in a vast, infinite universe.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Wow, yeah, exciting. Yeah, people talk about quantum leaping and just so much. There's so much talk about that and I have to say I love it, but I don't understand. I mean, I don't understand it and you actually maybe I can try.

Speaker 1:

Do you understand? So one of the one, one of the, and I can't remember who said this, but and I believe, and I feel I believe this to be true, anyone who talks to you and says to, says to you that they understand quantum mechanics, doesn't understand quantum mechanics. So that's a fundamental thing.

Speaker 2:

If someone says I understand, because it's not understandable.

Speaker 1:

It's because it's totally counterintuitive and it doesn't make sense. It is not relatable to everyday human life and it has been really, really helpful and accurate in describing how things work at the atomic scale. There are certain systems and forces in nature that quantum mechanics has been amazing at being able to describe and predict the behavior of atoms. However, when we think about us as acting in everyday worlds, we don't experience parallel universes. We don't experience what they call this quantum entanglement in the way that physicists try to describe it mathematically. But it's a great way of understanding the sense, or describing or telling a story about this sense of being interconnected around, being able to have an impact at a distance where how I experience life or whatever I do might affect or impact someone else. It's a great story.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't necessarily tell the exact same truth in the matter I I wonder um, I kind of like so curious about this and I'm wondering.

Speaker 1:

I probably don't even have the language to ask good questions about, um, I don't think there's any language that is. You could say it's good, there's just questions.

Speaker 2:

I wonder if it, if it kind of, um, it fits more. You're saying that we don't like, we don't really have the experience to understand it. Um, it feels almost more magical than real yeah, yeah, I didn't you know.

Speaker 1:

Albert einstein did not like quantum mechanics. He said famously that god does not play dice. He was fundamentally just did not understand how this could work as a, as a theory. Um, and there I think there is a. What it does is, it does connect this idea of a we are all energy, which is something that people in the spiritual world talk about, and B that the fundamental nature of reality is not fixed. Yes, yeah, it's some kind of weird ineffable state, yes, emptiness, so that there's an element of coherence and truth there, like, okay, science is coming in it from this angle, seeing that there's this real unpredictability fundamentally to nature. Spirituality, on the other end, is, as a kind of a felt sense, is trying to explain that. But our experience of the world is also I will, if I jump off a cliff, uh, I would say 99 times out of 100, I will fall, splat on the ground 99 times out of 100, yeah, shame, you can't do that 100 times, just to experience the one time.

Speaker 1:

It's bound to be, at some point an eagle's going to fly by and land on his back.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I see, yeah, wow, cool. Well, this is an interesting route for the conversation. I never thought we'd go this way. I honestly didn't know which way we were going, but here we are. Um, what I love about quantum I mean, like even to say the word feels ridiculous because it's so far outside of my vocabulary really. But I do practice Tantric Buddhism and you know my teachers are saying you know it's so interesting that science is catching up to what we've always known. So, yeah, that kind of form and emptiness. You know that actually everything's empty. That's something that the Buddhists have been talking about for a long time. So, okay, great atomic physics. So you're a doctor, you are doctor I, I.

Speaker 1:

I can legally and justifiably put the two letters dr in front of my name so that's cool.

Speaker 2:

So there's not. It wasn't all a waste of time well.

Speaker 1:

Well, it depends on what the benefit there is of having a doctor in front of your name. When you're on a plane and someone is going into anaphylactic shock and someone shouts is there that it's not definitely helpful.

Speaker 2:

Hopefully that hasn't happened to you.

Speaker 1:

I've always kept. I never really put it on my plane ticket.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay. So, aside from being able to put those two letters in front of your name, I mean, what? So? What I'm hearing you say is that that that isn't so. You've got this kind of discord, a little bit of discord, or a tendency towards discord, around that experience, and where you are now is that they don't feel they feed, that that feeds there is no.

Speaker 1:

I would say there's no direct link, um, but I wouldn't call it discord. I enjoyed, I really enjoyed my time doing a phd. I learned so much, yeah, about just not only science and physics and philosophy, but just technology in general, and I, you know, I, I can, I'm very comfortable with complexity and I'm very comfortable with abstract ideas, and so that is something that I that's brought, that brought that to my life. Yeah, um, I also appreciate what it takes to to work hard right, yeah, in order to make something happen yeah so there's a.

Speaker 1:

It's given me resilience, yeah, um, and and yeah, and a lot of the stuff that I did there technically, you know, I applied at some, in some level, to parts of my professional journey yeah, beautiful, I mean I, yeah, I don't know, I maybe it's just for my own personal journey.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I have the complete opposite end of the spectrum, really.

Speaker 2:

You know, like I just never, I didn't even go to university, I dropped out of school at 16.

Speaker 2:

I went to music college, I joined a rock band and I just went running in the other direction, just going like my family motto really was money won't buy you happiness, and so I just took it so literally, so to heart that I just went well f that then I'm not even gonna try, and so that in a way, you know, it's so interesting, isn't it, that those early formative experiences, I mean, and yours being so different from mine, but also there's this sense of um, not necessarily seeing the linear, uh, not really understanding how the pieces fit together.

Speaker 2:

But then somehow, when you look back, I don't know for me personally I can really see how the pieces fit together. But then somehow, when you look back, I don't know for me personally I can really see how the various threads have really built me, led me to the exact place I am. I mean, maybe that's even silly to say because it's kind of obvious, but I guess what I mean is maybe with the healing that has happened for me in my own story, now that I've kind of forgiven myself for the things that I could have done or didn't do or you know, and I'm I kind of like myself now.

Speaker 2:

I'm like oh yeah, no, I'm, I'm all right. You know, there's this sense of like. Oh, I can see how all of those experiences had to happen in order for me to be where I am, and I really like where I am, and so therefore I'm really grateful you're nodding no, what I'm hearing here, where I'm connecting to, is this journey of, oh, this, this even idea.

Speaker 1:

What is the journey? What makes? How am I making sense of this journey I've been on? How do I look back and say, ah, that's why I'm here, yeah and um, you know for me, you know what, again, what I'm hearing in your story there's like, oh, I went all on that direction and I could have gone this direction and now. But now it makes sense why I went in that direction and I've done the work to integrate what those experiences and what those mean from my perspective.

Speaker 1:

I, you know, I could have, even if I could have firstly gone into, become a researcher and really double down in science. I was working in the realms of nanotechnology. I could have gone into energy so much stuff that is relevant now. Quantum computing, that was. I was in the forefront of that work at the time. Wow, so I could have been doing that work now. So if I think of it that way, why didn't I stay there? Or I could have left.

Speaker 1:

I got into the financial sector. I could have a lot of people who are physicists, are great at modeling. I could have been a lot more financially wealthy if I did that. But no, I didn't. I ended up going and from being a physicist I became a web developer. I went into an agency and I started at the bottom rung, as if I was like straight out of school and taught myself programming. I then become a director in the company and then I quit. I could have stayed there. I could have grown that agency and then I went and worked with Lawrence and I was a freelancer with him and we grew our own little agency and then we quit and we started the Happy Startup School.

Speaker 1:

So I could have this story that you just quit because you just don't know how to stick it out what I have learned, a I I was always just accepting that I didn't know what I wanted, so I was just going to follow my nose, what I did know at the time, what I didn't want and what was really uncomfortable for those in those particular paths.

Speaker 1:

So I switched what I've discovered by what I hear from you of this, maybe inner work, this healing, just in our case of building the happy startup school, learning from people and then trying to help other people get clarity. The story I have is I understood what my needs are now these core, higher order needs. That I didn't know how to articulate back in the day. What I said is I wanted to be a teacher. But then, when I want to be a, be a teacher means working in schools and I don't want to work with kids who don't want to learn. But I don't necessarily want to go to a private school and teach there, because that doesn't feel quite right, because you're not teaching the people who might really need it.

Speaker 1:

So I had a very limited view of possibility based on a need to teach yeah what I actually was able to articulate more clearly for me myself now is like my needs are learning, my needs are contribution, my needs are play, my needs are adventure. So how can I meet those needs? I couldn't meet them in the school, because play and adventure doesn't seem to feel possible there. However, in a happy startup school, all four needs are being met by everything that we do yeah, so it's like you.

Speaker 2:

So is this what happened? You were unhappy with the various career paths and things you've done and you got to a point. I mean, tell us about the point that you got to. I mean, I was gonna suggest what it was like, but what, what was that like? I mean, there was a there was there a moment where you, where it just suddenly you said, oh yeah, these are my needs and this is what we're going to do.

Speaker 1:

No, no, that is only, I would say. Over the past five or six years, I've been able to articulate that more clearly. It was much more of a felt sense and this for me and this is why I'm exploring for myself as an idea is the difference between trauma and truth. When we are triggered to leave something on, not do something, what is it who's talking at the time? Is it something just like a fear that is associated to a past experience? So we're actually making a decision based on the past rather than the present? So we're actually making a decision based on the past rather than the present? Or is it a real inner knowing that actually, this isn't for me, based on my deep self-knowledge and I would say a lot of that because I don't think I'm that kind of person as opposed to, this isn't my path.

Speaker 1:

So I will choose something else.

Speaker 2:

Oh, what you just said about trauma versus truth, that is just so relevant. This week I was just telling you I've had a busy week for recording interviews on the podcast. This week I was just telling you I've had a busy week for recording interviews on the podcast and the last two have just really there've been themes emerging and I mean all my work is about this trauma and truth. And you know I was interviewing Amanda Scott, this lovely lady who's the author of the buddhica series and more um, on the last episode, which hopefully people have listened to already by now, and uh, she was talking about trauma culture versus initiation culture. So, just looking at what you're talking about from the fact that it's a culture that creates it, and I just think this is so interesting. The way we make decisions, what you're talking about there is it coming from? Well, in the West we're just raised in that. So most people's way of responding to the world is because of the traumatic, so the fear, the stuff that comes up, rather than you know what she talks about in a, in a traditional culture with just Born into a community, and I mean this really Feels like a very relevant piece for you know, the happy startup school. It's like this is what you're creating. You're creating community where people belong. That's the word. It's like this belonging and acceptance and like just getting a reflection.

Speaker 2:

I was talking to somebody this week as well who'd been to summer camp and who was saying that he got this acceptance that he'd never experienced like his entire life.

Speaker 2:

And that was my experience too. I emailed you afterwards and said, like, just, I have never experienced this before, just utterly being myself and I'm sorry if I'm going off on a tangent here, but it just seems related of um that actually and you know Amanda Scott in her, in this conversation I had with her in the last episode yeah, this idea of the initiation culture, and actually in the Boudicca series of books which we were talking about, it's going back to the British Isles, at a point where we still had this kind of culture intact, you know, before it got torn apart by the Roman invasion, which she says was when the trauma culture arrived, you know, and so there's something tribal about it. Like it does feel it seems maybe a random connection to be talking about Boudicca and the happy start up summer camp, but something about this is like this this just accept, acceptance and belonging and just being part of a community and, um, yeah, any thoughts on that call us a bit of a random first a quick question.

Speaker 1:

When you talk about initiation culture, yeah, just clarify that for me yeah, well, well, actually.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I realized as I was talking. I didn't explain that it it's, and this is what's where it gets kind of interesting, because initiation meaning, um, the rites of passage between childhood and adulthood, and we don't have that in the West, so what we have is children walking around who haven't grown up and they haven't had, and what Amanda Scott talks about and she got this from Frances Weller, I think, if I get the name right I haven't done the reading directly myself that it's about encounters with death, you know, and also knowing ourselves as part of the wider non-human world and developing that connection and just feeling ourselves, I guess, as a part of that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify, because that's what sprang to mind this idea of rights of passage and ritual and and so so, initially, to reflect on the invasion of the roman empire and the ultimate defeat of buddhica yeah, and the essentially the shifting of a culture within a country, yeah, I could. I could look at it in terms of what springs to mind is what was, what was driving the roman empire?

Speaker 1:

conquest yeah, a real need to have dominion and power and to show that as a um, to amplify the symbol of rome. Yeah, basically, it was all in service of a small group of people to make sure they look powerful as opposed to and I don't know much about uh sort of the the culture of the existing indigenous peoples the britons yeah, but yeah, as I understand, it's probably a druidic kind of uh, like you said, nature connected, yeah, and so when you have a culture like the Roman Empire, which was inherently needed to be structured and ordered in order to have all of these people work together and so all

Speaker 1:

the rules and laws and, essentially, homogenization of how people should be in order to preserve the empire, versus what I'm assuming is much more organic, more in touch with natural cadences and cycles of humans and nature, and then that appreciation of because of cycles and seasons, there are transitions, and the idea of marking those transitions. I'm part of a men's group. We do a lot of, you know, we talk a lot about men's stuff, but one of the things I've learned is the absence of ritual transition for men, where before there were, in some societies, cultures you'd go out, know, fend for yourself as a young man and then come or leave as a boy, come back as a man, and that being a very clear ritualized transition, which we no longer have now means for and this is what you know listening to podcasts, various well, that means for the man that exist in the world today. Some heads of state that spring to mind that I won't mention, but that whole um challenge of because these men and I'm going to focus on men because I know that experience um who still have those children inside them that they haven't let go of.

Speaker 1:

And there's a guy who, uh, who worked with us on our provision 2020 program. We've known him for a while, called. I'm not going to pronounce his surname properly, so I'm going to call him Victor. His name is Victor. He's a ritual designer and just teaching us about this idea of the importance of rituals in daily life in order to mark transition. Kasper de Kuyel is another author of. I have his book, but he talks a lot about ritual in daily life, secular rituals to again clearly mark transitions in our lives, to then, I think, connecting to what we were saying before, more sense of meaning, but also more sense of awareness and intention in our next phases.

Speaker 2:

That's so interesting and that is so funny. It just feels that is exactly what my conversation with Tad was like on Monday. He was talking solely about ritual and ceremony and how to enrich our existing kind of way of being by by bringing in just marking the transitions, and that's so funny that that's yeah feels kind of yeah, something in the air this week A bunch of business hippies on your podcast.

Speaker 1:

They're all going to be talking about something similar. It's the quantum entanglement of it all.

Speaker 2:

Right, is it it? Oh, I love it. It feels very quantumly entangled right now. But is that? What is that another way of saying um? You know, people talk a lot about um. What is it like? The um, what's the hippie way, the kind of um, like the spontaneous. Do you know what I mean? There's there was a book written about it um, like coincidences and how they're not coincidences and they're um, oh god synchronicities thank you.

Speaker 2:

Synchronicities, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if we want to go down that, that avenue well, I think there is something for me.

Speaker 1:

This is what's fascinated me about the work and the journey that we're on with the happy startup school is, um, and particularly as a scientist, kind of marrying this idea of manifesting and intentions, setting um with, you know, a kind of a linear view of life, um, and also even a scientific appreciation of life and what what I've been curious about is particularly around this idea of synchronicities and serendipities and and and luck for instance yeah um, I remember reading something around the studies like no set of people are inherently more lucky than the other.

Speaker 1:

What makes the difference is their openness to new things oh, interesting that open their awareness of being present to what's happening right now and not being limited and too focused.

Speaker 1:

You know, and there's that, um, I think there's a psychological study about going through a newspaper and then picking out certain words, and if you picked out all of those words, you you'd win £100 or something like that. And on page three there was an advert that said if you stop reading now and show this advert, you will win £100. And the people who were just focused on completing the task missed the ad, and the people who are more open and just like less intense or more lucky saw the ad and so they didn't have to go through the whole newspaper looking for all the words that's an interesting example, wow.

Speaker 2:

So what's the takeaway there? Not?

Speaker 1:

chill out. Well, this is it. I think this is the looking up now and again, uh, and being able to be present to what is yeah as opposed to racing towards what should be yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And that's where the serendipity arises and that's where taking time out creative practices, going for a walk yeah.

Speaker 2:

Having conversations with random people yeah, just switching off you have to have your eyes open, don't you and your all? Your sense fields open in order to notice them, because they're probably happening all the bloody time. Yeah, but we're too busy.

Speaker 1:

We're too busy your nervous system is so, and you talk about fear, and you talk about uh, and you talk about scarcity connected to that is scarcity. It's like it then affects our bodies, affects our minds, and so we are less open to opportunity, because all we're doing is trying to pay the next rent.

Speaker 2:

Right, yeah, totally, and I love that this all, all of this conversation, which on one level, seems a bit like it's going off in random directions, but for me it all ties back to my experience of summer camp, which was like actually three, three days in a field with people just having fun, having a good time and talking about meaningful things, making meaningful connections. Or maybe it's not meaningful, like we don't need it to all be meaningful, maybe it's just fun and you know, some of it will be meaningful and some will just be as it is. But just, I think the disconnecting from the devices and and the planning and just being present, that's really what it is for three days with, your sense, fields kind of open and elements and all of that. Hey, something magical happened for me, certainly, and I felt like I was in this kind of flow state after that. You know where sync and really my the couple of weeks following summer camp, the most incredible synchronicities were happening. It just felt like magic is that a common?

Speaker 1:

experience, yeah, I think it's generally for most people who um get out of the day-to-day, um try to um, yes, switch out of just a routine that feels predictable, safe but predictable. Yeah, um, and it's for me, and you know it's a practice, you know, going to somewhere like summer camp is an investment in the practice of presence yeah and then you then take that practice because you feel the benefit of it at an event like that, and then you apply it elsewhere.

Speaker 1:

And that's when the synchronicity starts to happen, because you realize, actually, if I'm just, if I just let the armor down a bit, if I start being more curious and looking around more. If I start being more intentional about what I really want and who I really am, as opposed to following external scripts, suddenly I start seeing things I didn't see before, or they suddenly appear. Well, I'm manifesting something. No, they're there, they just didn't see them before so you're not manifesting it.

Speaker 2:

You just didn't have your eyes open before. No, your eyes are yeah you're, you're, more you are.

Speaker 1:

You've basically prepared the ground for those seeds to actually land and what's it called the reticular activating?

Speaker 2:

What's it called A reticular activating system or something?

Speaker 1:

No, don't know that one.

Speaker 2:

So, this is the part of the brain that's responsible for seeing what's habitual Interesting. I think I'm just going to check that reticular activating system or something. Yeah, that's it so, reticular activating system. So this is the like why we, when we, when I was pregnant, suddenly it seemed like everyone was pregnant. You know, suddenly there's pregnant women everywhere. Or when we bought the we've got an MG car, when we got an MG, suddenly we're like oh, why has everyone got an MG? We never saw them before, you know. So that's.

Speaker 1:

Have you had that experience? Yeah, I well, definitely. Um. You see, I remember seeing more buggies, yeah, exactly. Yeah, more slings, yeah suddenly yeah, it's um because we're?

Speaker 2:

because there's literally so much information out there and we can't take it all in, so we just filter it. We just have to have a filter.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And. But this actually is an argument for, I think, for actually knowing what you want and that. But then interestingly, that's kind of in opposition to what we were just talking about, because you know that's about having the goal and the kind of point of focus that you're working towards.

Speaker 1:

I would say Well, there's two ways I was thinking about it. One is having a conscious filter, so being conscious about the filters. There's unconscious filters, which means you don't even know if they're on or off. They're just there, and so you have no choice about being able to look up and see anything, because that's how the world works, that's a belief, um, and then it is, I think, for this idea of being being open to possibility but being intentional about your actions. You can still, I think, focus down and say I'm going to do this, but then, at the same time, you can also have an awareness where you can, like, look at yourself while you're doing this thing, just to check is it still the right thing?

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1:

And also to and this is where I think this becomes a skill. This is a practice of trying to avoid distraction while still being open to opportunity, being able to focus on what matters, or focus on the action or the activity, the business, the marketing, the action or the activity, the business, the, the marketing, the sales, the, the product, but without losing sight of what is it actually in service of yes and that's all about, for me, conscious awareness.

Speaker 1:

That's, of course, about self-knowledge, that's also about really defining what success really means to you, and that's also being more self-referencing and creating a greater sense of autonomy being more self-referencing, so can.

Speaker 2:

What do you mean by that?

Speaker 1:

so when I think about self-referencing and other referencing, self-referencing is about being able to make choices based on what you believe is right, as opposed to what everyone else tells you yeah and that's that.

Speaker 1:

That's where I think you can have more conscious focus when you have clearer clarity, and this is the trauma and the truth. Yes, and this is all my pet theory when you have much more clarity about who you are and what's actually triggering you or pulling you in different directions, you can then be much more, have much more trust in your own self-referencing yeah, beautiful, and this is like I mean, this is another way of talking about actually the exact kind of what why it's so important to, I think, to do the healing work.

Speaker 2:

You know, if you've got a vision I mean, I'd love to hear your take on this, carlos, like I think that if you've got a vision because a lot of times people have got they've got a vision, um, and it feels too, or that it may be somewhere like summer camp, I guess this might that they're so open and relaxed and they've got all this support around them that maybe they come away with an idea and they've got this idea and it feels like, yes, that is exactly what I need to do.

Speaker 2:

And then they go back to life at home, you know, with all the trials and tribulations of that kind of monotony, of routine and yada, yada, yada, and suddenly the self-doubt comes back. I imagine I mean, and this is, this is my world really, this is what where I, the work I do, comes in, but, um, I'd love to hear your way of explaining that. You know what? What I'm saying is the vision is so big and so beautiful and so perfect, and then I thought I could do it when I had all that support and then it's just me and you start going into the old stories and the old trauma response. You know, I guess what I'm saying is for me. I think that healing is vital in order to achieve that big vision which is self-referenced, which is entirely from one's own inspiration, um, and not like just doing what someone else said you should do, okay so a few thoughts.

Speaker 1:

For me is or just to repeat what you said to make sure I'm clear about the situation. It's like you're in a place like summer camp and the vision arrives, or you feel much more in touch with the vision and in that space there is no doubt. It doesn't feel like there's doubt there.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And then you then transpose yourself to back to normal life, and then the doubt creeps in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So if I think of it that way, there's a couple of lenses. Firstly, talking to what you're saying. Um, because when you talk about healing, it's like there's something around this space where healing wasn't necessary no when you're in this other space, suddenly the healing is required. Yes, so I'm guessing that the the scar is always still there, or the wound is always there, but for some reason that wound isn't getting in the way when you're around the right people oh, that is such a beautiful way of putting it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, but I'm guessing the wound still needs to be healed. So, whether you will, you'll bump up against that wound at some point, even when you're around the right people. I think what, what is potentially, you're carried away with the picture of possibility and the the being around the people who make it feel more doable, and then you go into the day-to-day. I think one of the challenges there is you have competing commitments yes, so your energy starts getting sucked, and here at summer camp, you have unitary focus on the vision yeah, and your body's relaxed with food.

Speaker 1:

You don't have to deal with where you're sleeping you don't know that you are focused on what it is you want to manifest. And then, suddenly, you got the kids, you got the car, you got the breakfast, you got everything, and, and you want to be a responsible and this is when I start thinking about identity. You want to be a responsible parent, partner, business owner, and so those are commitments you've made. And then you have commitments to this thing that will require sacrifice because you don't have enough hours in the day to do all of it. So then how do you? This self-doubt, I think, comes in, because how do you marry these two commitments?

Speaker 1:

yes, or and that's where I think the healing, the self-reflection, the realigning of these commitments, which ultimately becomes a reconfiguration of an identity yes, so that they don't compete which then sometimes means letting go of things, which then becomes a ritual, which becomes a challenge, because you need to transition in a right way. And then it's like oh my god, why did I leave that? And the sunk cost of leaving that. But then, looking at life, on the bigger journey of like, actually these are all just experiences that are informing our present, not necessarily dictating our future.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, I thought yeah, nice, I was just letting that sink in. Sometimes I'm a bit slow on the uptake, in fact. Uh, my partner rob and I have this joke that I always need a betty break, that I'm just that bit slower than everyone else so I would, I would argue, is that some of us are too quick to assume that we know what we're hearing oh really yes, because we jump to assumptions oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. Oh yeah, yeah, we'll go when in?

Speaker 1:

fact, like you are suing, it's more about. Actually, I'm going to accept that some things need to marinate and soak in, because we're not jumping on straight. Oh, I know exactly what you're saying yeah that's where. That's where it becomes dangerous, I think yeah, right, yeah, but then I do.

Speaker 2:

I mean I do that as well, like I'm quite conscious. In fact, just in the last uh episode, I you kind of I start I mean this is a total aside now going down another rabbit hole here. But um, when somebody starts replying and you expect, you think you know what they're going to say, and you kind of start nodding and saying yes, and then they start saying something completely opposite and like I'm like yeah, and then let's start frowning. I'm nodding still, but frowning and just like hang on, no, I've no idea what he's talking about, but it's a bit late now. So then do I say no wait, I and it and no wait. And actually this is interesting, isn't it? Because it really takes courage, it takes putting aside your ego, doesn't it, to say I thought I don't actually know what you mean, I've got no idea what you're talking about.

Speaker 1:

I think it's a wonderful thing to be able to say, and I think it goes to the self-referencing and it also goes to the curiosity.

Speaker 2:

say again it goes to the self-referencing and it also goes to the curiosity, and it goes to humility and it goes to desire for connection right, yeah, and, and you and I have practiced this a lot because I'm a bit slow on the uptake and I and I'm not very good at lying. That's the other thing like I'm, and I think it's because you know what you this thing about people being very linear and very attached on you know one, I'm just not very linear. I was saying this to Manda in the last. I'm just a very circular thinker. You know, I'm very present, so present, in fact, I struggle with making plans. I, you know, I'm kind of at the other end of the spectrum to what you were describing earlier as most people's problem is they're too busy looking down. Well, I'm too busy looking up and like experiencing, and that's lovely, but then how do you actually get shit done?

Speaker 1:

there's a um.

Speaker 1:

I used to love marvel comic books and one of my favorite comics was x-men oh yeah and the leader of the x-men was a guy called professor x and he was a telepath and so he could read people's minds, which was amazing. Some people might not think that's a great idea, but I thought it was an amazing power at the time. But in his origin story he talks about as a child, he just could not keep out other people's thoughts. It would drive him mad because there's so much input, all of this input, so much information, so much oh you know stimulus.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That it was just like it's hard to even look forward because you're overwhelmed with the present.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But that was a gift to be able to tune in to the world so well. And then it was a skill for him to have to block out intentionally the voices, because the voices are always there yeah the input's always there, the stimulus is always there, so you can't block it out you somehow, or you can't not have it, come you. Just how do you work with it without going mad?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and it's about, I mean, everything's a balance, isn't it? You need to be able to do, you need to be able to tune in to the noise, the background, what's happening, to be present. To be present.

Speaker 1:

You know, for that serendipity, synchronicity you're having.

Speaker 2:

it's like, I believe, most artists, most creatives, are fully present internally and externally, and that's where the the inspiration stimulus happens, because they're not linear, they're not just focused on a goal, they're trying to yeah they're not even trying, they're just absorbing all the time yeah, I relate, I really relate to that, and it's quite frustrating when I'm trying to grow a business because I can't sit down and make a plan. Well, this is the and then maybe we are.

Speaker 1:

We live in a world that has valued linearity and structure and predictability, and I don't know anything about what it was like to live in villages and and um tribes but, you hear about the shaman the guy who would just like he'd be looked after by the tribe, because he was the person who could just like see everything so he didn't have to market himself, he didn't have to go. So right, you know what I'm gonna. If you follow this program.

Speaker 1:

I'm gonna take you from here to here and this is how it works and this is how it's costing, you know this is what I need he just village this is and this is it, and this is where tad, I think tad's kind of trying to bring in these ideas of how do you bring, how do you build the village around you that really values for you, who you are, as opposed to reaching out to randoms trying to sell them predictability.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, amen, totally. I love it. I love all of this. It's been such a fun. I've got no idea of the time. Oh, do you know? I haven't even looked at the time once and we are actually at time. How are you doing, carlos? Do you want to stop?

Speaker 1:

there. I can continue for a few more minutes if you want to do. You want to stop there? I'm, I'm, I can. I can continue for a few more minutes if you want to. Okay, tie some off some loose ends, or have you got questions? You want to do?

Speaker 2:

you know what it requires in order to tie up loose ends. That requires me to be way more linear than I am, because I've got no idea what the loose ends are, and this is why I'm either a terrible podcast host or a very I don't know. Just I've got no idea what I'm trying.

Speaker 2:

It's been a wonderful tad is so good at this, he's so linear and I always feel so um, um, inconsequential. No, I just feel incapable. Sometimes, when I like he, whenever we get to the end of a conversation, he just like ties it all up with a lovely bow that refers to all the different threads that we've been, and I'm like how do you do that?

Speaker 1:

so I don't know, he's a good storyteller yeah, he's an amazing storyteller.

Speaker 2:

God, he's brilliant. Um, so we've been to atomic physics and we've been to like needing to tune into ourselves. I don't know. What do you feel is relevant? What would you like to say? I'm just going to let you.

Speaker 1:

I think this is a big part of this. For me, that's coming up is this idea of synchronicity and self-referencing, and it's like, how do I stay authentic to whoever I am? And then it's like, what is authentic? Yeah, who am I anyway? And this is the trauma and the trigger aspect of it in terms of, like, how can I become more self-curious? Yeah, to then become more intentional in the world and the work I do, yes, but then also, how do I tune in to what is happening around me?

Speaker 1:

so I'm not just navel gazing all the time. Yes, so that I can be of service to others, I can also benefit from the connection to others. Um, and this, you know, we, we find ourselves in places that don't necessarily feed ourselves, feed our souls in the way that we need to be fed.

Speaker 1:

So where do we get that nourishment and how do we tune into that on a regular basis so we can continue to just tune into the dreams and the visions and not get caught up about it and make sure the kids get to bed on time?

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, right, yeah. And the answer to that is, of course, come to summer camp, of course that is the answer to everything that's interesting, isn't it? The room, uh, yeah, that is the answer to everything. It's becoming my answer to everything. Just come to summer camp, it's inside you.

Speaker 1:

We'll just make sure you can find it?

Speaker 2:

yeah, what summer camp is a? It's a state of being, it's true, yeah, it is true, actually, um it, because what it requires is just looking up, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

and just opening your sense fields and being alive to the moment and um stepping off the treadmill yeah, trouble is I never really stepped on, like I hear this a lot, you know, and I feel really almost unable to communicate effectively with the people who've been on the treadmill, because I've never been on the treadmill I'm I actually would quite like to get on the treadmill. It's kind of helpful. Do you know what I do when I get on thelos at the gym? I dance. I fucking hate. I'm like like I find it so boring just running in the straight.

Speaker 1:

I've got this image now of gyms now installing, you know, those games where you have to do the steps that's what they need well, they just need a dance floor.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it would be the. That would be the still responding to the external. Wouldn't it like you still have to follow the moves, but actually, if you're going to dance from the inside out, you just need an empty space. In fact, why go to the gym?

Speaker 1:

just go dance in a field, but then it's because you want to dance with other people yeah collective it doesn't that?

Speaker 2:

that would be nice and that is what I want and that is what was amazing at summer camp. There's a brilliant photo, isn't there that? Have you seen the one of me dancing like just looking on top of the world? It's like it's kept. Beck's caught something there. She's captured me just in my utter element. But, um, sadly in west wales it's not quite as easy to to find the the people who want to dance yeah, I'm gonna.

Speaker 2:

yeah, come to brighton. Exactly, you probably got it all going on in brighton. So, carlos, well, this has been so much fun I had no idea of the time passing, so that's always a good sign. Come again, let's do it again.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I'm well up for one random journeys in in thought space, so yeah. Anytime you want to, just bounce around a few ideas around where there's spirituality, to startup, to self-knowledge, yeah, inner child work, whatever you want to do yeah, all of it.

Speaker 2:

Um good, all right. So obviously the message is loud and clear. What? If people want to find out more about happy startup, happy Startup School? They can. Obviously, where do they find you online?

Speaker 1:

So website happystartupschoolcom, I would say the well. I would invite people to listen to the podcast. Go on to any podcast sort of platform and just look for the happy entrepreneur and you will find all the conversations that we have with different people and you'll hear about. Also, you'll find episodes with just myself, lawrence, and our fellow coach, lana yelenia, who helps us with our vision 2020 program, and and that's all a linear, more or less journey of going from the inside out of entrepreneurship but creating space for more serendipity and just, yeah, self-reflection. But ultimately, yeah, come and listen to us there, then you get to know us more and then you can decide what to do next then yeah, and you and then you'll definitely want to come to summer camp.

Speaker 2:

Ok, I'm going to say it again All right, colas, it's been such a pleasure, really fun, all sorts of things coming up. I had no idea where we're going. Like I've said, it's all good and it's completely non-linear, which is brilliant.

Speaker 1:

And I wish you an enjoyable day. Thank you so much. Thank you, it has been incredibly fun. Thank you, enjoyable day.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much. It has been incredibly fun. Thank you, hi again, it's me. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you enjoyed this conversation that was full of twists and turns and interesting content. Well, I thought so. Hopefully you thought so too. Um, if you've made it this far, I'm guessing you did so. Thanks so much for listening and do remember to subscribe.

Speaker 2:

Like these episodes, send them to a friend, anyone you think might enjoy them. That really helps me to spread the word. And if you've enjoyed it, why not consider dropping me a line or leaving a review? I'd be really grateful for any kind words. I always love hearing from you. And if you're looking for the Summer Camp and Happy Startup School summer camp and happy startup school, you can go to happy startup summer camp. Sorry, happy startup summer dot camp, happy startup summer dot camp. That's their address. And to find out more about the happy startup school generally, go to the happy startup school dot com and the links are in the show notes. So that's the the happy startup school dot com, and you can find out more about carlos and all the events that he runs together with lawrence as part of the happy startup school. All right'm going to stop rambling and let you get on. I'll catch you next time. Bye for now.